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shaved,
1 yr 96 days ago
 Ruslana“It doesn't matter. Translation is a translation, but you have no chance to read it in origin, while so "badly informed" Russians and Chinese do have that chance. ”
They don't get to read the AP, Rueters, Jpost, or thousands of other sources without them being first vetted by the government. Ruslana “If you somehow missed it, China exports products to ALL OVER THE WORLD including Europe and Russia. China won't ruin if the "American consumer" collapses. ”
The US is by far their largest customer. Ruslana “This doesn't excuse the extirpation (or maybe it's better to say - genocide?) made against the small nation named American Indians.
”
First of all, it wasn't one nation. It was hundreds of small nations. While I don't make excuses for it, I place it in its historical context. You refuse to respond to my allegations of genocide at the hands of the Soviets less than 50 years ago. You've lost all credibility with this double standard. Ruslana “What more can I tell you if you consider it "liberty and justice" to decide what small nations are "eligible" and what are "ineligible"? This is how Hitler started his career. ”
you just lost the argument
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shaved
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557716
Fri, 22 Aug 08 09:53 PM
Dew 2007 “We want to live in freindship with Georgians and Ukrainians. They have always lived near by and lived in friendship. Why come here and tell them what is wrong and right? stay at home and welocome those who want to live your way. ”
wrong Russia conquered them 200 years ago. They were brutally oppressed until 1991. You call that friendship? Now I'm wondering what your definition of liberty is.
Since that time, they have been courting the west and structuring their societies in ways that promote individual liberty. When someone tries to stop that, you had better count on the US getting involved.
America doesn't stay home when we have a job to do. Dew 2007 “Those who wanted it - they had gone to the US. And let them live happily.
Why tell the others how to live? Why tell us to do this or that American style?”
Tell that to North Korean peasants who know nothing but how to farm rice and show deference to soldiers. We tell others how to live because it's just as evil to watch a rape and do nothing about it as it is to rape someone yourself.
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Cookiemonster
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557719
Fri, 22 Aug 08 10:04 PM
shaved “Muslim women will never persuade me that it is right to force them to do, wear, or say anything because it is never right to force innocent people to dehumanize themselves and cut them off from the right to express themselves through their clothing. Educated Muslim women who have immigrated to western free nations, for the most part, give up the hijab. Even those who don't give it uphave to admit that the fact that it becomes THEIR CHOICE is the important thing. ”
Hi shaved, Sorry I know I am off topic ,but I really felt the need to say a few things about these sentences.. I don't wear headscarf myself but my sister does.In my country unfortunately it is forbidden to enter universities with headscarf.( It is a great shame I think.) So my parents, especially my father didn't want my sister to wear headscarf as it would be an obstacle for her education and her future bussiness life. I remember that she cried day and night to persuade him. He is still a bit heartbroken as she didn't listen to him and wore headscarf.. Why she had to make a choice between her father or her education and her faith. Why couldn't both of them be possible?I think this is the thing which is dehumanizing. Many girls like my sister have to wear off their headscarves before entering the school and I think this is dehumanizing too.It is dehumanizing and ridiculous not to allow these people to get the education they want and than to see them as uneducated and miserable.I have two friends whose mothers don't wear headscarf but they do. They also contradicted with their parents until they got used to the idea.When a girl wears headscarf she dehumanizes herself right? And cannot express herself ? I think the other way round . Headscarf is a part of her identity and when she is asked to take it off then she would feel that she is not be able express herself as she cannot act the way she wants.I really know that there are many many women who are forced to wear headscarf or even veil( which is not required by Islam but by some traditions) Believe me, I am aganist this more than any one else. There is no oppression in Islam. Our prophet says so. Even God set us free to make our own choice after informing us by the prophets and the books.The people who force their women to be covered don't have any idea of real Islam.They are as norrow minded as the ones who see the headscarf as a sign of underdevelopment and ignorence.What I am aganist in your utterance is as far as I understand, there is a profile of headscarfed woman in your mind who makes a ridicilous and a stupid thing and even dehumanizes herself by obeying to her religion.Ok by capitalizing the letters you meant their choice is important but your other choice of words are very offending I think.
Joined on
Sun, Aug 3 2008
New Member
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shaved
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557724
Fri, 22 Aug 08 10:20 PM
Cookiemonster “In my country unfortunately it is forbidden to enter universities with headscarf.”
That's not America, is it? I went to school with a lot of women who wore head scarves. The point I make is not about Islam. The point I make is about personal liberty. You honestly take offense to my insistence that it is a person's right to choose what they wear? I highly doubt it.
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Cookiemonster
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557729
Fri, 22 Aug 08 11:05 PM
Yes, that is not America.Does it make difference? I just mentioned a case which ignores personal liberty. I also strongly advocate that a person must have a right to choose what s/he wears. If one wants to wear headscarf she should even at university, if not nobody has a right to force her to wear it. I just found the words you wrote like "dehumanization" a bit offensive to many covered people and I touched on Islam in order to explain that Islam doesn't have a aim to dehumanize people.
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Goodman
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557730
Fri, 22 Aug 08 11:12 PM
Come to Russia and see by your own eyes what exists here and what does not (because you won't believe me if I say that liberty does exist here). But Russia doesn't want the same liberty and justice as in Iraq and Yugoslavia. [/quote
I have no future plan nor interest as yet to visit Russia. But If one is doing the finger pointing, he need sto make sure he himself is not guilty. What do you call the recent unfolding events? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4551488.ece Is this what you consider “liberty and justice” Russia style”? US has no intent to occupy Iraq, nor conspiracy to take over the oil, which by the way should be considered to a certain degree as the billions are mounting up and thousands soldiers lives are lost in addition to the Iraqis. I agree with Shaved 110% that liberating Iraq and its people from Saddam was the goal of US. As Saddam’s regime and his Republican Guards being quickly toppled and destroyed, other religious and militant factions had sprouted across the land. There isn’t a shred of doubt, US needs to get out of Iraq, but not for the same reasons the radical world wants. We can better use of our tax dollars on our people than spending it on liberating those who don’t want us there to begin with. I know it’s hard for some to realize the danger the world is in with Ahmadinejad. But for the free world, he is a time bomb. When that time comes and the world is threatened with his Nuclear Promise, “ who are we going to call” as the lyrics of one song goes, There is a lot of similarity to what happened in WWI where Hitler tried to dominate the world. Enough said, I am not trying to say US can do no wrongs. There is a lot I am not happy with about the current US policies. But call a spade a spade, if US does not intervene when the bad guys are running rampant, who will! That’s all I am saying.
Joined on
Mon, Nov 7 2005
Senior Member
3,816
The name says it all!
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Cookiemonster
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557731
Fri, 22 Aug 08 11:13 PM
Yes, that is not America. Does it make difference? I just mentioned a case which ignores personal liberty. I also strongly advocate that a person should have a right to choose what s/he wears. I chose the example in Turkey. If one wants to wear headscarf she should, if not nobody has a right to force her. I found the words you used a bit offensive like " dehumanization". And I touched on Islam to explain that Islam has't an aim to dehumanize people. Edit. sorry I sent this twice
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Goodman
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557735
Fri, 22 Aug 08 11:38 PM
For entertainment value, let me throw this "ridculous" question out, what if the person choose to wear nothing, do you think it’s ok?  It seems to me the meaning of “liberty” varies a great deal here on this forum. In some countries even today, liberty, civil or personal, does not exist. Here in America, a lot of people who came form another land are screaming about the deprivation liberty and rights, and how bad we are as a nation, shut up and recollect how “good” you had it in your own land. I am from another land and there is not enough words in my vocabulary to show my gratitude to this grate nation. It’s not without problems. I must admit. Has anyone noticed, where on earth can you find so many poor and overweigh people. If you look around in any low income neighborhood, you don’t have to walk too far to find them. If one is to be poor, I think he will no better place than living in the US; and I mean every word of it!
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Cookiemonster
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557744
Sat, 23 Aug 08 12:13 AM
Goodman “For entertainment value, let me throw this "ridculous" question out, what if the person choose to wear nothing, do you think it’s ok? ”
Goodman, you made me laugh a lot. No, I think it is an exaggration and really disturbing.But of course someone could think differently. 
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