Orpheus  +  1452 Sun, 29 Jun 03 03:09 AM I think there are exceptions, and those two are some of the exceptions. According to Michael Swan in Practical English Usage, sometimes we add an apostrophe to a singular noun ending in 's' in older and foreign names. But just sometimes, Dickens is still written Dickens's novels. Tough question, Maj. Orpheus Joined on Tue, Jun 17 2003 Jakarta, Indonesia Regular Member 587 'Truth is Subjectivity' - Kierkegaard Nouns, Apostrophes, Singular Nouns

	Jacko  +  1454 Sun, 29 Jun 03 04:48 AM I am not entirely sure, but I guess it would be Cervantes's, Don Quixote's, or Socrates's ideas. You can also remove the 's from Cervantes's and Socrates's. The rule is if the non is singular and ends in s, then you should add 's. But if it will sound awkward, then you may choose to omit it. Either one is acceptable. Jacko Joined on Fri, Jun 20 2003 Full Member 215 ...Ad Space For Sale... Contact St. Nick for Details Apostrophes

	Jacko  +  1455 Sun, 29 Jun 03 04:53 AM Also about the nouns, that would be called joint possession. If two nouns jointly own a possession, then you add 's to the last noun. If two nouns have individual possession of the noun, then you add 's to both. (I said 's, but you should use ' whenever necessary). Example. Adam and Eve's garden. It is either Adam's or Eve's decision. In the first sentence, Adam and Eve co-own the garden. While in the second sentence, Adam doesn't own Eve's decision, nor Eve does own Adam's decision. Jacko Nouns, Apostrophes

	Orpheus  +  1478 Sun, 29 Jun 03 11:02 AM I think I didn't say it clearly. What I meant is Socrates' is the common way to write it and it's just one of many exceptions. Orpheus Apostrophes

	moijelesuis  +  4562 Sat, 16 Aug 03 12:19 PM then there is the surname James. if Mr. and Mrs. James James (or Robert James, if you prefer) invited people to their home, the invited guests could say, "we are headed over to the Jameses for cocktails." (here it is a plural, not a possessive!) moijelesuis Joined on Sat, Aug 16 2003 usa/canada Full Member 116 Plurals, Apostrophes, Possessives

	kitkattail  +  4598 Sat, 16 Aug 03 05:57 PM You know, getting back to the original question, if it is a family-owned business, then isn't there more than one Harper after all? kitkattail Joined on Tue, Aug 12 2003 Toronto Full Member 400 www.kitkattail.blogspot.com Apostrophes

	hitchhiker  +  4689 Sun, 17 Aug 03 06:10 AM Then it would be "the Harpers' bar" - In this case, Harper was given as the name, like the name of a grandfather or something.. John Harper's bar etc.. hitchhiker Joined on Mon, Nov 18 2002 Richmond, UK Senior Member 4,034 Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement... Apostrophes