Using "and" in numbers

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Mister Micawber

#394573 Sat, 21 Jul 07 06:10 AM

And I might add the lyrics from South Pacific's 'Honey Bun':

My doll is as dainty as a sparrow,
Her figure is somethin' to applaud.
Where she's narrow she's as narrow an arrow,
And she's broad where a broad should be broad.

A hundred and one pounds of fun,
That's my little honey bun!
Get a load of honey bun tonight.

I'm speakin' of my Sweetie Pie,
Only sixty inches high,
Ev'ry inch is packed with dynamite!

Her hair is blond and curly,
Her curls are hurly-burly.
Her lips are pips!
I call her hips 'Twirly' and 'Whirly'...

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (22,306)

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

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CalifJim

#394611 Sat, 21 Jul 07 08:43 AM

Well, that source trumps just about everything. I should have looked it up myself. I keep a very authoritative edition of Broadway Musical Comedy Lyrics right between Encyclopedia Britannica and the Oxford Unabridged on my book shelf. Smile [:)]

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,566)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Kooyeen

#394768 Sat, 21 Jul 07 02:15 PM

Mister Micawber wrote:

"and" is usually left out in American English when reading numbers.

This is not my experience (or my habit) at all, Kooyeen. Where did you get this information?

"one hundred eighty-six"

Uh, I don't know, I think... Wikipedia, some stuff I read in some forums, in some grammar book or dictionary too. I've always heard Americans usually say "two thousand one" instead of "two thousand and one", or "one hundred eighty-six" instead of "one hundred and eighty-six" Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005

Italy

Senior Member (4,045)

If you don't have a sense of humor already, it's about time you buy one.

American English, Numbers, Grammar

Mister Micawber

#394798 Sat, 21 Jul 07 03:31 PM

Hmm-- well, it looks to me now as if it is very individual, Kooyeen. Some do and some don't.

As long as we're on the topic, I might as well go on to say that I have been making a (small) point of teaching 'hundred 'n'...' as 'natural English' to most of my students. In addition to my own habit of doing so (could it be a Midwest American thing?), I have been using the excellent textbook, Listen Carefully, by Jack C. Richards (Oxford U Press), whose accompanying cassette also (as you said, in BrE) presents the 'hundred 'n'...' form.

In light of Jim's comments, however, I think I will drop this exercise.

Mister Micawber

CalifJim

#395843 Mon, 23 Jul 07 10:11 PM

Don't drop the exercise on my account!

It's quite possible that I am the victim of an occupational hazard: In my education in math and sciences and in my jobs in finance systems, I was usually in environments where everyone was continually abbreviating by dropping the "and"s, just because numbers came up so very frequently in the conversations. The use of the "and" may be more common in the lives of "real people" without the same occupational deformities. Smile [:)]

CalifJim

Numbers, Conversations

Anonymous

#395931 Tue, 24 Jul 07 05:34 AM

From my experience, the form "and" is used most naturally in North American English, however, many people have the form without the "and" in their idiolect, because math books caution against its used. Most math books insist that one should only use "and" when refering to a decimal point, and not to use it after hundreds. I used to use it until I was in grade 1 where the teacher insisted that it was more correct to use the "and-less" form. I usually use the "and" form in everyday conversation, because it sounds more natural to me
, but when I am reading math problems, I leave it out.

Anonymous

American English, Conversations, Idiolect

Clive

#395937 Tue, 24 Jul 07 06:40 AM

Hi,

From my experience, the form "and" is used most naturally in North American English It's certainly used in Canada.

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (22,192)

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American English

Tanit

#396467 Wed, 25 Jul 07 01:56 PM

Hi,

For what it's worth, I'm used to saying "and" (I can't remember why ... was I taught to do so? Sorry, it must be because of my age but I really don't remember why Big Smile [:D] ). However, I distinctly remember the lyrics from a musical, "Rent" (if I'm not mistaken, it's from the US) ... here is the chorus:

Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes,
Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Moments so dear.
Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes
How do you measure, measure a year?

In daylights, in sunsets, in midnights
In cups of coffee
In inches, in miles, in laughter, in strife.

In five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes
How do you measure
A year in the life?

Tanit

Joined on Mon, Jul 31 2006

In the middle of the Mediterranean Sea

Senior Member (2,217)

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Colombo

#396538 Wed, 25 Jul 07 04:47 PM

I was taught (by a teacher that used mainly British English) that 1,234 is read as "one thousand, two hundred and thirty-four". He used to tell us the differences between British and American English, and I don't remember his telling us about any difference in this case (although it was a long time ago, so I might not remember well).

Colombo

Joined on Fri, May 5 2006

Spain

Junior Member (71)

Trying to learn English

American English, British English

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