We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!
Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
www.english-test.net
+
42456
Mon, 16 Aug 04 01:48 PM
What exactly do you mean by '...said what he's called to say in teh world's history'? And why are the Germans not German enough? Could you please define 'being German?' Are you referring to the fact that the Germans are now taking to the streets protesting against their government's attempts to reform the social system? Why is it that the Germans are facing a deep recession? Why are so many Germans complaining about their current situation? Is that what you mean by 'being German'?
Joined on
Sun, Sep 14 2003
Europe
New Member
05
url removed
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jack-in-the-box
+
42473
Mon, 16 Aug 04 03:03 PM
Well, as for your first question: my sentence reflects the idea that every nation – as every individual – has got a peculiar identity, which is expressed by her history, tradition and culture (by her language, for example), and that by expressing it she can give her peculiar, indispensable contribution to the history of mankind. I know this sounds old-fashioned to many people; and this is admittedly a very Romantic, very 19th century idea (it is also very German [and Italian], and this is one of the reasons why I like it).
But, what am I talking about? This is your second question: " Could you please define 'being German' "? Sorry, I can't.
But, just a moment. I've got a friend whose name is Louis. Obviously, it's impossible, for me as for him and for everybody, to give a definition of his identity (of his personal essence, so to say) – I mean, a strictly logical definition. So, do you think that Louis is nothing? He's certainly something, and that something – his identity – can be grasped by me, who am his friend, with a sort of rational intuition, which is much deeper, and more rational, than the rigid – and somehow narrow-minded – formalism of Cartesianism or logical positivism.
This the way how friendship works. This is also why we need poets, or even psychoanalists: because the most important things in life can't be expressed, or defined, with the ordinary way of speaking. This is also, in my opinion, the way how we know, i. e., we UNDERSTAND, in history, and in the human sciences (this, too, is a typically German, and Italian, idea). So, I think that it's possible, if not to know clearly and distinctly, at least to intuit (though imperfectly, because it's a mysterious thing) what "to be Louis", or "to be German", means.
So, what does it mean? What IS Germany? Sorry again, I can't answer. To do that, I should use a metaphorical, allusive language, and I'm by no means sure that I would succeed in making myself understood.
Nevertheless, don't you think that the phrases "German" (or "Italian", "French", "Indian"…) "tradition" ("culture", "identity", "history") are basically clear? Are you German? If you are (or if you are English, French, Greek, …), don't you know what it means that you are? THAT is what I was talking about.
As you can see, there must have been a misunderstanding: I was not at all talking about the present political or economical situation of Germany. I was talking about the national identity: in other words, about HISTORY and CULTURE. You might object that they are unimportant, if the economy doesn't work; but, if you did, I wouldn't agree with you.
I hope I haven't bored you. Best wishes.
Joined on
Thu, Jul 1 2004
Italy
Junior Member
84
A friend in need is a friend indeed!
|
|
|
|
|
eagle,
5 yr 97 days ago
That was a nice one Jack
![Wink [;)]](/emoticons/emotion-5.gif)
Idril,
5 yr 96 days ago
The germans seem to be a cold people (this not means they are). The country...must be wonderful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
interested_one
+
47112
Fri, 24 Sep 04 01:16 PM
Hello guys,
well I am from Germany and your thread is very interesting to read.
At first I want to say something to Mej: If Germans are drunk they can be annoying but so are british men. Some Germans do have bad manners. The behave like ideots when they are on holiday which is a shame. But only some. I am sorry that you met such a guy.
The German language is strongly influenced by the english language. Thats true. That's partly due to the culrutural hegemony of the USA today. If you look back, you will find a string German impact on the English language too (e.g. wunderkind, kindergarten, IQ). I am not ashamed to use English words (if necessary) because this is a normal process. We always took over words from other languages (especially French). But we love our language since many great thinkers and poets were German and the German language is a nice one. And for English people it is easy to learn!
Pemmican is not right about our pride. Sure we hardly ever say that we are proud to be German. But thats not because of Hitler and the second world war. Germans are proud of their constitution, their culture. Germans are proud to be Westphalians, Bavarians, Frisians, Swabs and Frankians. They were proud of the Deutschmark, of the strong economy. A national feeling of belonging never really existed in Germany and if it did, Hitler killed it. Thats one problem, non-Germans do not see.
It can be difficult to get along with Germans. They sometimes seem to be cold, rude and unfriendly. Indeed it takes a while for us to get along with foreigner because we don't know how to talk to them, how to behave towards them. When I was in New Zealand for the first time the family of my girl friend and many of her friends started to talk about Nazi-Germany. They did not insult me or attaked me. Her dad who is a Maori talked about Rommel as if he was a hero. It seems to be typical for many other countries to, as I have heard. We do not have a problem to talk about our history (which is a bit older than 60 years) but we do not want to talk about it everytime we meet a foreigner. Thats probably one reason, why it takes longer for us to get close to you.
Greet
Chris
Joined on
Fri, Sep 24 2004
New Member
03
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
interested_one
+
47121
Fri, 24 Sep 04 01:38 PM
>I think the Germans (or rather lots of them) are strange lot: For example, the vast majority of the movies they watch in cinemas are US American, (as are most TV shows and films) yet, the Germans dub every single film so that you have the impression, it's a German film. In my opinion that's stupid. The German society spends huge amounts of money on teaching every German the English language for years and the result is that they are unable to watch a movie in the original version with German captions/subtitles just like any other European nation does.
many Germans learn English at school but that does not mean that they are able to understand and speak it.
> Germans don't have their own pop culture. They listen to English pop music without paying any attention to the lyrics - hey, am I supposed to understand anything they sing, it's in English!
You don't know much about German culture, do you? There is a German pop scene which is stronger than the English one. Not only Rammstein, but also Oomph, Grönemeyer and so on... Kraftwerk not to forget... We listen way more to German music than you believe!
>Germans have strange greetings such as 'Mahlzeit' - ask any German to explain the meaning of that stupid and empty expression and all you wll get is a blank face! The German language is very inflexible just like its speakers - word order is as strict as many of their laws.
Mahlzeit is a greeting that you say, when you are going to lunch! You also say it during the afternoon and it means something like "good afternoon". The German language is pretty flexible, my friend. We do not have an order for our words. For example :
1) Ich hätte gerne den Ball (I'd like to have that ball)
2) Den Ball hätte ich gerne
3) Gerne hätte ich den Ball.
4) Hätte ich den Ball gerne?
> To my knowledge the Germans are the only European nation with a law that requires any self-employed person to finance a rather useless and very conservative institution called IHK - Chamber of Commerce and Industry. So much for democracy...
Speaking of self-employment: Germany ranks very low regarding the percentage of people being self-employed and thereby taking responsibility for themselves. Especially in East Germany - the former Socialist part of Germany people don't want to take decisions themselves. They wait until they are told what to do by someone else - by an authority, the government, the all mighty Labour Office (Arbeitsamt) ect.
That is called consensus democracy and has got its root in process of conflict solving that countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium and the Netherlands do since the Westphalian Peace.
>Germans spend money on all kinds of things such as holiday trips to Majorca, German cars, tabloids, pay TV, digital cameras, cell phones. Yet, when it comes to education they think that the government has to take care of this. Why should I pay for a further education? What good is education anyway?
>Are there any good things about the Germans? Sure. Any nation is a good as another.
I believe provocation can serve as an accelerator, don't you?
You don't know much about us but you pretend to. Sorry!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
www.english-test.net
+
47215
Sat, 25 Sep 04 12:16 AM
What do you mean by 'you don't know about us'? I was born in Germany I spent almost my entire life here but I also had the chance to travel to other countries and got exposed to different ways of thinking. It seems to me that you are trying to defend something that doesn't exist. If you say there is a German pop music scene you simply ignore the facts: The vast majority of all pop songs played on German radio stations are made outside Germany, do you really want to argue that?
Also, what exactly does 'consesus democracy' have to do with the fact that if you set up your own business or even want to become a free lancer you are forced to pay a fee to the IHK? Wake up - even in Europe we are the only country which hasn't been able to change that law that is way too old and helps preserve such a hierachical and inefficient organization like the IHK.
'Mahlzeit' is a greeting that you say when you are going to lunch? Right, and those people who really say it don't use their brains because the word Mahlzeit simply sounds stupid and is not a greeting but an empty phrase.
Your attitude is pretty conservative - trying to explain why we have been doing things for ages and ignoring the fact that it's time to take a different view on things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jack-in-the-box
+
47221
Sat, 25 Sep 04 02:11 AM
I'm not German, but I do love Germany, and find your words somehow offensive.
I hope that you will pardon me for not even trying to refute your arguments. But, are they really arguments? For instance, your words about "Mahlzeit" are not particularly brilliant: since you use your brain, you should know that every word or phrase can be "empty" in a certain sense, i. e. if we consider it in the abstract, and becomes "full" when we consider it in the light of history and of current usage in a historically and culturally defined community. If we were to pass judgements about words the way you do, we could easily find thousands of words much emptier than this, in every language.
Although I don't really master the German language, I'm impressed by this monument of intellectual depth, and hope that I'll be able to learn it well and to read the classical German writers.
I'm sorry, but your words sometimes sound like an explosion of bad mood, or emotiveness.
P. S. Why should Germans defend themselves? Who accuses them? They have plenty of good reasons to be proud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jack-in-the-box
+
47222
Sat, 25 Sep 04 02:24 AM
(Just one of the many reasons why the Germans should be proud of themselves: they've refused to take part in an absurd, unlawful, immoral war.)
|
|
|
|
|
|