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Anonymous, 207 days ago
<<The idea that reading a certain number of texts will, somehow, provide a 16- or 18-year-old with something called a "literary heritage" is as desperate as suggesting that reading through a certain number of formulae will lead to an understanding of mathematics. >>

 

But what does "a literary heritage" mean to you, Mr Pedantic?

MrPedantic  +  711624 Sat, 02 May 09 06:26 PM
Anonymous

But what does "a literary heritage" mean to you, Mr Pedantic?

 

It means a kind of National Trust Gift Shop view of literature.

 

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
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...opella forensis / adducit febris...
Adrenochrome  +  711859 Sat, 02 May 09 09:20 PM
I notice from your tags that you refer to Britain, and unlike many people on this site, I live there.

 

Firstly, there are certain phrases that are still commonly used in Britain, which may not be taken in a literal sense but are understood immediately by almost every British person. Some examples of these could be 'a rose by any other name', 'alas, poor Yorick', 'friends, Romans and countrymen', and, 'gone now is the winter of our discontent'. All these are Shakespearean and still used to create an immediate image, which is recognisable to the hearer, despite its use of ellipsis. This is why Shakespeare is still seen as relevant in todays society, even though we know that his plays and poetry is probably written by Christopher Marlowe (a conspiracy theory), that his plays are not overly trueful and heavily propagandised (Richard III was not really a club-footed, hunchback coward - no, he was something even worse, a Yorkshireman), and he was a plagiarist.

 

Secondly, some literature is quite simply a magnificent read, which stands the test of time. Homer's 'Iliad' is just such a poem. Only a couple of years ago, Hollywood bastardised the story, propagandised it am=nd modernised it, ruining the whole point. A truly great piece of work lives forever, whilst rubbish disappears. Surely there should be such a place for this kind of literature, too.

 

The only difference between a 'reading heritage' for a student in 2015 and one from 1915 would be the addition of a small number of modern classics - '1984' by George Orwell, 'Catch 22' by Joseph Heller, 'The Name of the Rose' by Umberto Eco and 'The Great Gatsby' by F. Scott Fitzgerald stand out to my mind. On a personal note, 'The Little Prince' by Antoine de St Exupery, 'The Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams and 'Blitzed: The Autobiography of Steve Strange' would also be included.

 

Beyond that, the usual golden oldies of Homer, Virgil, Tacitus, Chaucer, Cervantes, Hugo, Blake, Byron, Brecht, Pagnol, Miller & Pinter (both modernish), Donne & Johnson, Aristophenes and Dorthy Parker.

 

Most modern heritage is from tv and cinema, and whilst elements of that media may live on, they rarely exist in a textual state, so would not be in a 'reading heritage'. As for bloggers - well only time will tell, though I do not feel that many, if any, of todays bloggers or twitterers will prove to be a sustained force. By their nature, they will be more in keeping with Andy Warhols '15 minutes of fame' than a heritage. I might well be wrong, but blogs tend to be very much of that moment, and become out of date quickly. A blog may be popular one day, then old hat the next. A little like music, many youngsters will not want to read the same bloggers that there parents did, so these blogs will die out. The internet itself is rather ethereal, whereas a paper book stands alone and is tactile and more permanent.

 

I notice that an Italian chappie believes that people will no longer read books, yet one of the growth markets in the last year has been in the 'virtual novel' genre, with books downloadable and text-readers selling well.

 

Whatever does happen, Dan Brown has no place in any discussion on literature. Not only are his books the worst kind of abuse of the arts but absolute drivel. I am not religious, so don't think my religious beliefs are offended, it is my beliefs about good writing, accuracy of detail and a damn good story. He fails at every test. (I teach semiotics, as well as business English), I have to de-Dan Brown students and explain the genuine symbolism in art and literature. He doesn't even call his man a semiotologist, he calls him a symbologist!! Please, someone shoot him for me. (He's my current pet hate) 

Joined on Wed, Apr 8 2009
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Zerox  +  712929 Sun, 03 May 09 11:15 AM
Agreed. Shakespeare is a must. As you mentioned, many and many of the phrases are still valid nowadays. All those conspiracy theories, however, are rather futile in my opinion. One should focus on the words, words and words instead. And plagiarism was rather the norm than the exception; many other writers borrowed ideas and phrases as well in that time.


I do believe, however, that all genres should be represented if some reading heritage is actually mandatory for pupils.

Joined on Wed, May 10 2006
Full Member 295
-It is rational that the irrational contradicts with the rational-
Anonymous, 203 days ago
MrPedantic
Anonymous

But what does "a literary heritage" mean to you, Mr Pedantic?

 

It means a kind of National Trust Gift Shop view of literature.

 

MrP

 

Sounds like a good place to start.

MrPedantic  +  713750 Sun, 03 May 09 11:28 PM
Anonymous
“ 

Sounds like a good place to start.

 

 

A wrong-headed place to start. First, it assumes that something called a literary heritage exists. Second, it assumes that the way to gain access to it, if it does exist, is by ticking off certain texts on a checklist. Third, it assumes that those texts are worth reading at 16 or 18.

 

(It also promotes the dismal idea that reading certain texts is somehow a worthy activity in itself.)

 

MrP

Anonymous, 202 days ago
So if you were working in education, what would you do about the students reading, MrPedantic?
Anonymous, 202 days ago
I would have thought that MrPedantic, above all people here, would consider the skill/ability to talk about literary texts a worthy actvity - even a sign of being educated. He seems to spend a lot of his on-forum time showing us, in one way or another, that he is well-read. So, where did his literary education begin if not at school? And does he now consider all that school reading as worthless?
Adrenochrome  +  714782 Mon, 04 May 09 01:43 PM
I disagree Mr Pedantic.

 

This may be that I teach Business English, and that despite attempting to appear differently, a Masonic handshake, old school tie or well placed literary phrase will still open certain doors to an individual, that would be quietly but firmly closed to others.

 

The study of English in solitude is a relatively pointless activity, as is the study of any single subject. The overall ambition should be to facilitate a well rounded education. Dickens, for example, is not the greatest Victorian writer and many of his stories are boring. However, Dickens wrote so that the wealthy elite of London society would be made aware of the extreme hardships of the working classes. It was during his time that the Trade Union movement in Britain began, leading to the formation of the Labour Party, which is our current governing party. Therefore, by reading Dickens, a student gains an insight into the Britain of 130 years ago which helped to mould the current country. That is the real reason why we study Dickens.

 

Most writers that are regarded as English literary heritage are of similar ideologies, and help those who are also studying English History, Geography, Religion and Sociology. Britain would never have had a large navy if we had not been an island, so were dependant on ships. Without our navy, we would never have built the Empire. Without the Empire, we would not be half as arrogant as we are. And that's not even mentioning the Protestantism and its influence.

 

Certain books reflect the history and therefore the heritage of a country. Do French school children read Marcel Pagnol for fun? - no, for understanding their own heritage.

 

Tick those boxes, and the rest falls into place.

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