Taka  +  402276 Thu, 09 Aug 07 09:08 AM At fifteen, when I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. About 'when' above, grammatically, is it the relative adverb modifying 'fifteen', or the conjunction? Taka Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004 Japan Senior Member 2,625 Verbs, Adverbs

	Taka  +  402577 Thu, 09 Aug 07 08:53 PM Anon, So you mean it's the same kind of 'when' as this one? In 1995, when I was in the U.S, my grandmother died. Taka

	MrPedantic  +  402617 Thu, 09 Aug 07 10:58 PM Hello Taka, 1. At (the age of) 15, when I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. I would take "when" here as a non-restrictive relative adverb, i.e. "at which (age)". But in this sentence I would take it as a conjunction: 2. When I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. It wouldn't surprise me if another member had a convincing reason why "when" in #1 should be classed as a conjunction, though! All the best, MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris... Verbs, Adverbs

	milky  +  402620 Thu, 09 Aug 07 11:38 PM  Taka wrote: At fifteen, when I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. About 'when' above, grammatically, is it the relative adverb modifying 'fifteen', or the conjunction? "A when clause will modify nouns of time: My favorite month is always February, when we celebrate Valentine's Day and Presidents' Day." http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/adverbs.htm milky Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2004 Senior Member 3,149 Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought". Grammar, Verbs, Clauses, Nouns, Adverbs

	CalifJim  +  402672 Fri, 10 Aug 07 04:46 AM 1. At (the age of) 15, when I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. I would take "when" here as a non-restrictive relative adverb, i.e. "at which (age)". At first I thought it might be the conjunction when with a preposed modifier (if there is such a thing) equivalent to: When I applied to the school at (age) 15, I knew nothing about the world. But after reading the sentence again several times and seeing your analysis, I'm inclined to agree with you that it's a non-restrictive relative.  Non-restrictive relative clauses with when and where are fairly rare compared with other non-restrictive relative clauses, aren't they? CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,380 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Verbs, Clauses, Adverbs

	MrPedantic  +  403024 Sat, 11 Aug 07 12:54 AM  CalifJim wrote: 1. At (the age of) 15, when I applied to the school, I knew nothing about the world. I would take "when" here as a non-restrictive relative adverb, i.e. "at which (age)". At first I thought it might be the conjunction when with a preposed modifier (if there is such a thing) equivalent to: When I applied to the school at (age) 15, I knew nothing about the world. Yes, that was my first thought too. Then I began to wonder whether "when" in the rearranged version could be regarded as an anticipatory relative. I'm still not sure about it. MrPedantic Verbs, Adverbs