When you have done

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Buzel

#264373 Fri, 08 Sep 06 10:20 PM

Thank you for your amendments, guys.

My manual says that there is a method using which it is in practice easier to define whether a Future tense must be used:

if "when" means "when exactly", i.e. a month, day, hour etc., and the logical accent can be made on "when", then a Future tense is used.

I don't know when he will come.

no idea when i will get paid.

if no stress on "when" can be made, then a Present tense is used.

I'll ask him about it when he comes. In no way is "when" stressed here.

Buzel

Joined on Sat, Aug 12 2006

Moscow

New Member (42)

Please, correct my writing in the entire post, not only in the part where i'm asking a question.

Tenses, Present Tenses, Accents

Marius Hancu

#264462 Sat, 09 Sep 06 05:17 AM

CalifJim wrote:
This is not a mandatory rule. It's something which is often done (thus, to me, optional), per Swan.

Which part is not mandatory? I may have misunderstood, but I'm assuming the rule you are referring to is: will cannot be used in a when clause where when is an adverbial conjunction. I don't believe there's anything that's not mandatory about it.

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tense simplification in subordinate clauses
present instead of future

Present tenses are often used instead of will + infinitive to refer to the future in subordinate clauses.

This happens not only after conjunctions of time like when, until, after before, as soon, but in most other subordinate clauses -- for instance after if, whether, and on condition that, after question words and relatives and in indirect speech.

Swan, Practical English Usage, p. 583
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As you can see, he says often, not mandatorily or always.

Marius Hancu

Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006

Montreal, Canada

Veteran Member (11,673)

Tenses, Clauses, Present Tenses, Direct Speech, Indirect Speech

CalifJim

#264493 Sat, 09 Sep 06 08:03 AM

Yes, I see. Swan is talking about subordinate clauses in general, which would include indirect questions and relative clauses. In that case the word often makes sense. It's surprising, though, that he doesn't make more specific observations, because there is plenty of evidence that he could have. For example, by restricting the sphere of clauses examined to just adverbial (subordinate) clauses of time with when, while, until, ..., he could have said that will is never used in such clauses. It was examples of this combination of when and will that, earlier in this thread, I challenged our forum members to find.

CJ