[title]Family quotes[/title] [description]Welcome to our family quotes section! Here you'll find some of the funniest (and wisest) quotes on the subject of family life![/description]
Learn English and meet people on the world’s largest EFL social network

We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!

Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com


1 2
Share this topic:
This question is Not Answered
Latest post Fri, Aug 8 2008 9:10 AM by Diamondrg. 11 replies.
Suggest an answer | | |
Diamondrg  +  551749 Wed, 06 Aug 08 08:42 PM
I wonder whether these sentences are possible in the subject position. Which ones are correct and which wrong?


[1]  However we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel.
[2]  However you do the job is not important to him.
[3]  However you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot.

[4]  How we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel.
[5]  How you do the job is not important to him.
Devil  How you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot.
--
[7]  Who(m)ever planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public.
Music  Who(m)ever you ask, the answer is always the same.

[9]   Who(m) planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public.
[10] Who(m) you ask, the answer is always the same.
---
[11] Wherever they went were closely followed by security men.
[12] Wherever they went is not important.
[13] Wherever he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him.

[14] Where they went were closely followed by security men.
[15] Where they went is not important.
[16] Where he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him.
----
[17] Whatever she did was nothing to do with me.
[18] Whatever we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.
[19] Whatever you decide, it’s okay by me.

[20] What she did was nothing to do with me.
[21] What we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.
[22] What you decide, it’s okay by me.
-----
[23] Whenever he returns to this place he is happy and contented...
[24] Whenever he returns to this place is of no concern to her.

[25] When he returns to this place he is happy and contented...
[26] When he returns to this place is of no concern to her.
------
[27] Whoseever car this is is not important.
[28] Whosever car this is is in deep trouble.
[29] Whoseever car this is, we have to fine him.

[30] Whose car this is is not important.
[31] Whose car this is is in deep trouble.
[32] Whose car this is, we have to fine him.
Joined on Fri, Dec 2 2005
Contributing Member 1,043
Doll  +  551774 Wed, 06 Aug 08 10:08 PM

Diamondrg

[1]  However we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel.
[2]  However you do the job is not important to him.
[3]  However you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot.  

I don't want to say they are wrong but all of the above sound better to me with "how".

[4]  How we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel.
[5]  How you do the job is not important to him.
Devil  How you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot.  

4 and 5 are okay but I would add "No matter" before "how" for number 6.
--
[7]  Who(m)ever planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public.
Music  Who(m)ever you ask, the answer is always the same.  

To me, 7 should be "who" because a noun, Jane or Bob (he, she) can be written.

Whomever for 8 is okay, I asked them, I asked her, I asked him can be replaced.

[9]   Who(m) planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public.
[10] Who(m) you ask, the answer is always the same.  

I would use "who" for 9 and "whom" for 10 with the same reason above. 
---
[11] Wherever they went were closely followed by security men.
[12] Wherever they went is not important.
[13] Wherever he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him.  

Number 12 sounds strange to my ear. I can't explain why though.

[14] Where they went were closely followed by security men.
[15] Where they went is not important.
[16] Where he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him. 

All above okay to me.
----
[17] Whatever she did was nothing to do with me.
[18] Whatever we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.
[19] Whatever you decide, it’s okay by me.  

Above are okay.

[20] What she did was nothing to do with me.
[21] What we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.
[22] What you decide, it’s okay by me.  

okay.
-----
[23] Whenever he returns to this place he is happy and contented...
[24] Whenever he returns to this place is of no concern to her.

[25] When he returns to this place he is happy and contented...
[26] When he returns to this place is of no concern to her.
------  

Somehow I feel that using where and who suggest us a broader context than wherever and whoever. Also I sense a difference in meaning among 23,24,25,26
[27] Whoseever car this is is not important.
[28] Whosever car this is is in deep trouble.
[29] Whoseever car this is, we have to fine him.
I have never heard whoseever!
[30] Whose car this is is not important.
[31] Whose car this is is in deep trouble.
[32] Whose car this is, we have to fine him.  

Sounds okay.

Joined on Sat, Mar 10 2007
Senior Member 2,812
Mr Wordy  +  551796 Wed, 06 Aug 08 10:57 PM

* You might hear native speakers use options marked thus, but they are, to varying degrees, dubious in my opinion.

[1]  How/however* we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel.
[2]  How/however* you do the job is not important to him.
[3]  However you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot.

[7]  Whoever planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public.
Music  Whoever
[conversational, informal] / whomever [formal, can sound pedantic] you ask, the answer is always the same.

[11] Wherever / where
[less likely] they went they were closely followed by security men.
[12] Where/wherever* they went is not important.
[13] Wherever / where
[less likely but OK] he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him.

[17] What/whatever she did was nothing to do with me.
["whatever" implies that the speaker isn't sure what she did]
[18] What/whatever we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.
[19] Whatever you decide, it’s okay by me.

[23] Whenever/when he returns to this place he is happy and contented...
[24] When/whenever* he returns to this place is of no concern to her.

[27]
Whoever's / whosever [rarer] / whose car this is is not important. [To me, these have different meanings. The first two mean that the owner is not important. The last means that the identity of the owner is not important.]
[28] Whoever's / whosever [rarer] car this is is in deep trouble.
[29] Whoever's / whosever
[rarer] car this is, we have to fine him.

(I made a couple of later edits to this)

Joined on Tue, May 27 2008
Senior Member 2,359
Native British English speaker
Diamondrg  +  551816 Wed, 06 Aug 08 11:24 PM
Hi, Mr Wordy and thank you.

If 13 is corect, then 11 must be correct too with "where". Isn't that right?
Kooyeen  +  551822 Wed, 06 Aug 08 11:35 PM
Careful! This is my opinion, as a non-native speaker.

Diamondrg
“I wonder whether these sentences are possible in the subject position. Which ones are correct and which wrong?


[1]  However we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel. I'd use HOW.
[2]  However you do the job is not important to him. I'd use HOW.
[3]  However you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot. OK.

[4]  How we conceptualize things has a lot to do with what we feel. OK
[5]  How you do the job is not important to him. OK
Devil  How you look at it, it’s going to cost a lot. I'd use HOWEVER
--
[7]  Who(m)ever planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public. I am not comfortable with "whomever". I always use WHOEVER
Music  Who(m)ever you ask, the answer is always the same. I am not comfortable with "whomever". I always use WHOEVER. (but here maybe "whomever" is ok too)

[9]   Who(m) planted the bomb showed a total disregard for the safety of the public. Hmm. I guess it should be something else, like THE ONE WHO
[10] Who(m) you ask, the answer is always the same. I'd say WHOEVER (and maybe "whomever" would be ok too)
---
[11] Wherever they went were closely followed by security men. Nope, I feel there's a "they" missing.
[12] Wherever they went is not important. I'd say WHERE.
[13] Wherever he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him. OK.

[14] Where they went were closely followed by security men. Nope, I feel there's a "they" missing, and I would say WHEREVER.
[15] Where they went is not important. OK
[16] Where he goes, a carload of soldiers goes with him. I'd say WHEREVER
----
[17] Whatever she did was nothing to do with me. Hmm, not sure, but I think I'd accept this.
[18] Whatever we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel. Hmm, not sure, but I think I'd accept this.
[19] Whatever you decide, it’s okay by me. OK

[20] What she did was nothing to do with me.OK
[21] What we conceptualize has a lot to do with what we feel.OK
[22] What you decide, it’s okay by me. I'd say WHATEVER
-----

[23] Whenever he returns to this place he is happy and contented... OK
[24] Whenever he returns to this place is of no concern to her. Hmm, I don't know. Maybe it's ok.

[25] When he returns to this place he is happy and contented...OK
[26] When he returns to this place is of no concern to her. 
------
[27] Whoseever car this is is not important. Never heard of whosever
[28] Whosever car this is is in deep trouble. Never heard of whosever
[29] Whoseever car this is, we have to fine him. Never heard of whosever

[30] Whose car this is is not important. OK
[31] Whose car this is is in deep trouble. Huh? The owner of this car is in trouble.
[32] Whose car this is, we have to fine him. Whoever the owner is, we have...


I'm interested in this stuff too. Now let's see what the others say. And I gotta go... big storm coming here. Storm
Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005
Italy
Senior Member 4,980
Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts
Mr Wordy  +  551823 Wed, 06 Aug 08 11:38 PM

Diamondrg
“If 13 is corect, then 11 must be correct too with "where". Isn't that right?”

[11] Where they went they were closely followed by security men.

Yes, I missed that one, but you're right, "where" seems possible (though not as likely as "wherever"). "Where" here tends to suggest that they went to a particular place, not just different places in general.

Looking at it again, I'm not sure either about the asterisk I put on #18. That one is probably OK too.

 

 

 

Diamondrg  +  551995 Thu, 07 Aug 08 11:14 AM
Hi, Mr Wordy.

[11] Wherever / where [less likely] they went they were closely followed by security men.

Is the sentence below correct, with or without comma after men?

They were closely followed by security men(,) wherever / where they went.
Mr Wordy  +  552011 Thu, 07 Aug 08 12:20 PM

Diamondrg
“Is the sentence below correct, with or without comma after men?

They were closely followed by security men(,) wherever / where they went.”
 

I would not use a comma with "wherever".

To me, "where" does not work in this "non-inverted" form of the sentence, either with a comma or without.


 

Diamondrg, 1 yr 110 days ago
Thank you, Mr Wordy, for your help.
1 2
© MediaCet Ltd. 2009, v5.0.3616.28671. All content posted by our users is a contribution to the public domain, this does not include imported usenet posts.*
For web related enquires please contact us on webmaster@mediacet.com, status updates are available at status.mediacet.com.
*Usenet post removal: Use 'X-No-Archive'. You may not have understood that your posts would end up in the public domain. Please send proof of the poster's email, we will remove immediately.