Whoever vs. Whomever

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MrPedantic

#283717 Sat, 21 Oct 06 01:04 AM

Diamondrg wrote:

So using 'whom' in speech marks one as non-native? Can you say it is best to reserve it for 'writing'?

I would agree with JL. "Whom...?" is relatively rare in native speech, but by no means unknown. On the other hand, "whom" after a preposition is relatively common.

Misuse of "whom" and its derivatives is also not uncommon. The British MP Glenda Jackson is a notable offender, e.g.

'I wish to ask my hon. Friend the Minister a question, and I hope that she can reassure me. It would be good if the chairmen of the panels were independent, but whomsoever serves on them, it is important that someone must speak for patients and carers.' (Hansard, 14 Jan 2003)

(I've heard her do this on several occasions. I think she must rather like the sound of it.)

MrP

MrPedantic

Joined on Wed, Oct 13 2004

Veteran Member (11,811)

...opella forensis / adducit febris...

Prepositions, Whom

Marius Hancu

#283718 Sat, 21 Oct 06 01:07 AM

MrPedantic wrote:

Misuse of "whom" and its derivatives is also not uncommon. The British MP Glenda Jackson is a notable offender, e.g.

Hey, I've been out of touch with her career lately. I didn't know the actress is an MP these days, but she is! Smile [:)]

Marius Hancu

Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006

Montreal, Canada

Veteran Member (11,291)

Whom

Clive

#283742 Sat, 21 Oct 06 02:19 AM

A couple of trivial and irrelevant things.

Hi anonymous person,

no , it didn't. in fact i think it's better to be more formal. Your remark seems ironic to me because of the complete lack of capitals. Was this deliberate? Did I just misread your joke? Wink [;)]

Hi MrP,

someone must speak for patients and carers. I don't think I've heard this word before. For a moment, I thught it was a misspelling of 'careers'. I know a 'caregiver' gives care. Does a 'carer' simply . . . care? Is this some new form of politically correct speech?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (19,296)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

Spelling, Jokes

MrPedantic

#283745 Sat, 21 Oct 06 02:44 AM

Hello Clive

Yes, a "carer" is someone who looks after e.g. an elderly or disabled person (often a relative), without pay. Apparently there are 6m or so in the UK, of which about 60% are women.

I think they were first named when they became a noticeably large group...

MrP

MrPedantic

Anonymous

#311612 Sun, 07 Jan 07 01:50 AM

Although English is not my vernacular language, I believe that "whomever" is correct. For example, you give something to "someone." Someone cannot be nominative subject; whence "give this to "whomever" is correct.

Lesly Smile [:)]

Anonymous

Nominative

Grammar Geek

#311623 Sun, 07 Jan 07 02:32 AM

Lesly, thank you for trying to make a contribution on this, but I would suggest you read the preceding four pages of posts. You are correct that if it were simply "to someone" it would be "to whom." (You gave it to whom?) But that is not the construction in this case.

In any case, welcome to the forums!

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (14,523)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Constructions, Whom

MrPedantic

#311641 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:16 AM

Anonymous wrote:

Although English is not my vernacular language, I believe that "whomever" is correct. For example, you give something to "someone." Someone cannot be nominative subject; whence "give this to "whomever" is correct.

Lesly

Guest answered the question perfectly in the original post, Anon:

"Whoever comes to the door" is a noun clause that is the object of the preposition "to," actually functioning as an indirect object in this sentence. Within the clause, the subject is "whoever." By virtue of the fact that it is the subject, it has to be in the nominative case - whoever, rather than whomever.

MrP

MrPedantic

Prepositions, Clauses, Nouns, Nominative, Direct objects, Indirect objects

Teo

#311659 Sun, 07 Jan 07 05:05 AM

The title of salutatorian goes to whomever/whoever has the second highest academic average.

Whom/Who did you say this package was for?

The title of salutatorian goes to whoever (=anyone who) has the second highest academic average. Correct!

The title of salutatorian goes to whomever (=anyone whom) has the second highest academic average. Grammatically incorrect! But as commom as "Between you and I" .

Whom did you say this package was for? Whom was this package for? Both are grammatically correct but not common in ordinary usage.

Who did you say this package was for? Who was this package for? Both are correct and very common!

Teo

Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2004

Taiwan

Contributing Member (1,583)

Thank you very much for your reply.

Whom

Teo

#311660 Sun, 07 Jan 07 05:12 AM

MrPedantic wrote:
Yes, a "carer" is someone who looks after e.g. an elderly or disabled person (often a relative), without pay. Apparently there are 6m or so in the UK, of which about 60% are women.

Did you mean 6 million?

Teo

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