Casi  +  78839 Sun, 06 Mar 05 05:49 AM I found this hilariously funny! Then I thought, "Gosh, maybe he was serious!" (Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic came to mind!) Ahem, . . . Terry? Casi Joined on Sat, Sep 25 2004 Regular Member 547 Whom

	CalifJim  +  78840 Sun, 06 Mar 05 05:52 AM The derivational source of (1b) is a double object construction, not a dative construction and wh-movement is disallowed Doesn't a double object mean a dative object and an accusative object? Is there a special terminology called "dative construction" which only includes structure with the preposition "to"? The terminology makes it sound as if putting the pronoun in the double object construction takes away its dativeness, doesn't it? CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,393 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Nouns, Constructions, Prepositions, Whom, Pronouns, Accusative

	CalifJim  +  78841 Sun, 06 Mar 05 06:05 AM The derivational source of (1b) is a double object construction, not a dative construction and wh-movement is disallowed wh-movement is only disallowed if you need a rule that prevents the generation of a sentence that you believe should not be generated because it is not grammatical to you (or to the person who wants to include the rule in the generative grammar). Don't you agree? CJ CalifJim Constructions, Grammar, Whom

	CalifJim  +  78842 Sun, 06 Mar 05 06:11 AM Hi, Casi! I didn't understand the "Ahem". Maybe you didn't see the humor in those examples? I presented a sentence which was just awful -- so awful that even the "improvement" is awful! It's an "unimprovable sentence"! Not funny to you? Well, I thought so! CJ CalifJim Whom

	MrPedantic  +  79026 Sun, 06 Mar 05 10:45 PM Stranded prepositions, mysteriously disappearing prepositions...I'm glad you all stopped for a breather. It gave me a chance to catch up. This aspect I find interesting: 1. The lion was given | the Christian. 2. The lion was given | to the Christian. 3. The lion was given | to eating Christians. 4. The lion was given | ten minutes to eat the Christian. Given these 4 possibilities (are there more?), and licence to insert as many words or phrases as you want after 'given', how long can ambiguity be maintained? (My thought here is that passive ditransitives must somehow be left 'open' in the listener's mind, till some aspect of word order resolves the ambiguity.) MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris... Prepositions, Whom, Word Order

	CalifJim  +  79297 Mon, 07 Mar 05 04:59 PM Note, too, that in the third sentence, we even reach the end of the sentence with minds still open! -- as we might with the spoken version of The lion was given to preying/praying on Christians. (Although the second meaning is infinitely less likely. I'm sure there are very few known cases of pious lions.) The term "garden path" sentence comes to mind. Has anybody but me heard that term? CJ CalifJim Whom

	MrPedantic  +  79397 Tue, 08 Mar 05 12:26 AM in the third sentence, we even reach the end of the sentence with minds still open I hadn't spotted that one! 'Garden path sentence' sounds familiar; or maybe it's just the experience. Where you keep turning corners to find yet another hill ahead. 'Country mile' sentences... MrP MrPedantic Whom

	CalifJim  +  79469 Tue, 08 Mar 05 06:02 AM I believe the most quoted example of a garden path sentence is The horses raced past the barn fell. (where "raced" is a past participle) CJ CalifJim Whom