Whose property?

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milky  #282061  Tue, 17 Oct 06 10:43 AM

"English is the property of its users native and non-native, and all English speakers need training for effective international communication" (Smith. 1987:xi).

Do you agree?

  
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MrPedantic  #282427  Wed, 18 Oct 06 12:50 AM

All property is theft.

MrP

  
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Tam Sadek  #282435  Wed, 18 Oct 06 01:11 AM

From the British Council's 1997 publication 'The Future of English' by David Graddol:

“A debate would be timely on how Britain’s ELT providers can co-operatively prepare for the need to build and maintain the British brand and how the promotion of English language goods and services relates to the wider image of Britain as a leading-edge provider of cultural and knowledge-based products.  The way English is promoted and marketed may play a key role in positioning Britain as one of the 21st Century’s forward-thinking nations.”  (Graddol, 1997, p63)

Not that I would agree personally...Wink [;)]

  
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milky  #282517  Wed, 18 Oct 06 08:09 AM
 MrPedantic wrote:

All property is theft.

MrP

Which means - re your opinion of the topic?

  
milky  #282520  Wed, 18 Oct 06 08:13 AM

How about this, Tam:

"The Prince of Wales highlighted the threat to "proper" English from the spread of the American vernacular as he launced a campaign to promote the language as world leader. He described American English as "very corrupting" and emphasised the need to maintain the quality of language..."

The Times, 24th March, 1995.

  
Tam Sadek  #282604  Wed, 18 Oct 06 12:10 PM

Yes I know MilkySad [:(] He also wrote a forward praising the BC publication I quoted... I think he and the BC see themselves as 'the defenders of the faith' wherein 'faith' now means one particular brand of English...

I love the wackiness of it all though! What? British English is the world leader like Coke, and American English is what? Pepsi, or do they mean Brit Speak is a fine wine; American, cheap plonk; and Aussie English is what? An alcopop?

Let's ignore the 21st Century and restart the 19th all over again and bring Britain back to prominence... hahaha Wink [;)]

I certainly do not adhere to that point of view! English is a dynamic language which is constantly changing and as such cannot be 'frozen' at a point that some native-speakers may find 'comforting'... Just look at the new inclusions into the Language Review, such as 'waparazzi' being the term for people who take photos of celebs on their WAP phones, and 'screenager' as they tend to spend all their time in front of various screens...

Certainly HRH won't be using either of those, I presume, even though they have now entered the 'British brand of English'. But does anyone care whether he does? I don't! I prefer English 'like what she is spoke'...Wink [;)]

  
milky  #282631  Wed, 18 Oct 06 01:05 PM

<I love the wackiness of it all though! What? British English is the world leader like Coke, and American English is what? Pepsi, or do they mean Brit Speak is a fine wine; American, cheap plonk; and Aussie English is what? An alcopop?>

Big Smile [:D]

And Indian English is a Lassi.

<Let's ignore the 21st Century and restart the 19th all over again and bring Britain back to prominence... hahaha Wink <img src=" src="/emoticons/emotion-5.gif">>

If we're talking about winning at cricket, let's!

Wink [;)]

<Just look at the new inclusions into the Language Review, such as 'waparazzi' being the term for people who take photos of celebs on their WAP phones, and 'screenager' as they tend to spend all their time in front of various screens...>

Interesting that not many such neologisms have yet found their way into ESL/EFL/ESP classrooms. I wonder why? Is it due to a need for native English teachers to hide such inventions?

  
Anonymous  #283380  Fri, 20 Oct 06 06:02 AM
The problem is that British English is really just a corruption of Anglo Saxon, which in turn was a corruption of Indo-European, which was a corruption of Blah blah blah blah.  From this view we should all just stop speaking until we can deduce Proto-human language and speak the "pure" and "uncorrupted" first langauge ever spoke, haha.

This reminds me of an Italian guy I met in Beijing that spoke very good British English and confided in me his opinion of how the Americans had completely butchered English.  Unfortunately, I had a few drinks in was not in proper argumentative form so I just gave him a dirty look and walked away.  If I had not been intoxicated I wonder how he would have reacted if I told him that, "what's really terrible is how you Italians totally butchered Latin, you just slaughtered that language with your awful speech.  It really turns my stomach, in fact, I might have to vomit now." 
  
milky  #283733  Sat, 21 Oct 06 01:53 AM

If I may post this extract:

As Englishes evolve, skilled users of each English search for solutions to the problem of using the full richness of the new, evolved English while still keeping their utterances comprehensible to users of other Englishes. A comment by Nigerian writer ChinuaAchebe expresses this challenge well and is applicable to most of the world’s Englishes:

The price a world language must be prepared to pay is submission to many different kinds of use. The African writer should aim to use English in a way that brings out his message best without altering the language to the extent that its value as a medium of international exchange will be lost. He should aim at fashioning out an English which is at once universal and able to carry his peculiar experience.…I feel that English will be able to carry the weight of my African experience. But it will have to be a new English, still in full communion with its ancestral home but altered to suit its new African surroundings (1975, pp. 100-103).

For business and other international purposes, a core of English has to remain understandable to all English users. But England, the U.S., and Australia do not own English. No one nation or culture is in charge of English now.

http://www.csulb.edu/~gilsdorf/st%20eng%20world%20eng%20jbc.htm

  
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