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Pyewacket  +  118674 Sat, 16 Jul 05 04:12 AM

Sure the black market trade of organs is bad, especially since the people giving up their organs are not technically donating them. They are being robbed of them. It’s unethical.

But to get back to the original question of “Why are some people against organ and body donation?” perhaps it’s because of this:

http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp

This is a link that references Body Worlds, an exhibition that has been touring the USA. Gunther von Hagens is the pioneer of "plastination," the replacing the body fluids in a corpse with plastic. Fasincating? Sure, if you are into observing the workings of the human body. However, these bodies were intended as a teaching tool for medical students. Do you think the individuals who once inhabited those bodies would have donated their organs and bodies had they known they were going to be put on display for all laypersons to see?

Perhaps people are against donating their organs and bodies because they don’t want to be exhibited in this way.

Pyewacket

Joined on Wed, Jul 13 2005
Northern California, USA
Junior Member 67
"The aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, drunkenly, serenely, divinely aware." -- Henry Miller
nona the brit  +  120332 Fri, 22 Jul 05 02:24 PM

Personally I would want to donate but I think I would have a hard time donating my loved ones bits and pieces...

I think that transplants are a fantastic thing and can totally transform the life of the recipient. I would be happy for my organs to go to someone else.  However...making that decision for someone else must be hard.

Transplant organs are not taken from 'dead' dead people.  If the person's systems have completely shut down then the organs are no good.  So people who are 'brain-dead' have their bodies kept on a life support system until the operation to remove the organs (called 'harvesting', such an unpleasant term), so you can see your loved one with a heart beat, breathing on a ventilator, and have to agree to have their organs taken away and life support turned off.  Officially they are dead as there is no brain activity but their body is still living. Must be very emotional and difficult.

Some people have religious beliefs that prevent donation as well.

Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004
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nona the brit  +  120335 Fri, 22 Jul 05 02:25 PM

Personally I would want to donate but I think I would have a hard time donating my loved ones bits and pieces...

I think that transplants are a fantastic thing and can totally transform the life of the recipient. I would be happy for my organs to go to someone else.  However...making that decision for someone else must be hard.

Transplant organs are not taken from 'dead' dead people.  If the person's systems have completely shut down then the organs are no good.  So people who are 'brain-dead' have their bodies kept on a life support system until the operation to remove the organs (called 'harvesting', such an unpleasant term), so you can see your loved one with a heart beat, breathing on a ventilator, and have to agree to have their organs taken away and life support turned off.  Officially they are dead as there is no brain activity but their body is still living. Must be a very emotional and difficult decision.

Some people have religious beliefs that prevent donation as well.

The_Star  +  127133 Mon, 15 Aug 05 06:54 AM
In my opinion, giving our organ and body donation is really good. We won't be dead because we donate our organ. Although maybe our health will be decreased a bit.
If I have died and someone needs my organ or body, I think I don't mind donating it. Because I believe my body won't have anything to do with my life after death. The ones that usually reject donation is our family. They imagine that the dead person will suffer if he/she donates his/her organ or body. Maybe the reason why most people are against donation is about belief.

Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2005
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Anonymous, 4 yr 209 days ago

Hello, my name is Kylee. I am a senior from Mt. Dora Bible in Florida. I am doing a research paper on donating body organs. If you could just give me your thoughts and feelings on this subject that would be great, and I would not use any names.

Philip  +  129710 Mon, 22 Aug 05 10:22 PM

My concern is not whether or not I want to have my organs harvested; I'm really wondering if anything I have will be worth anything by the time I go.

True story here where I live.

A few years ago a young man (early 20's) was brutally and senselessly murdered (called manslaughter eventually) during a "celebration" of Mardi Gras, I believe it was, where drinking and revel-rousing got out of hand and someone bashed him over the head with a skateboard.  A few months later, the family hosted a party in honor of his birthday.  The honored guests at the party were the six or seven people who had received life-saving organs from the deceased.

If that isn't cause for emptying the Kleenex box, I don't know what is!

 

Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005
Veteran Member 9,297
At reise er at leve! - H. C. Andersen
Anonymous, 4 yr 209 days ago
Body:

That would be a charming little story if it were true Philip.
Unfortunately, as it stands it is totally unverifyable, and may well be completely untrue.
There are countless documented cases of organ theft FROM people who are STILL ALIVE! Consider the incredibly high prices organs fetch on the black market, and one can easily understand the temptation for doctors to unecessarily 'turn off' life support from certain patients in order to harvest their organs for use in other patients, or more chillingly - for sale on the black market.

Until there is considerably more scrutiny of the methods of the medical profession, which has demonstrated itself to be highly secretive - and indeed even conspiratorial in many cases involving patient deaths - I am not at all ready to embrace the concept of 'organ harvesting'.

The following article provides sources;

A kidney fetches $2700 in Turkey. According to last month's issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, this is a high price.

Written by Sam Vaknin


A kidney fetches $2700 in Turkey. According to last month's issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, this is a high price. An Indian or Iraqi kidney enriches its former owner by a mere $1000. Wealthy clients later pay for the rare organ up to $150,000.

CBS News aired, two years ago, a documentary, filmed by Antenna 3 of Spain, in which undercover reporters in Mexico were asked, by a priest acting as a middleman for a doctor, to pay close to 1 million dollars for a single kidney. An auction of a human kidney on eBay in February 2000 drew a bid of $100,000 before the company put a stop to it. Another auction in September 1999 drew $5.7 million - though, probably, merely as a prank.

Organ harvesting operations flourish in Turkey, in central Europe, mainly in the Czech Republic, and in the Caucasus, mainly in Georgia. They operate on Turkish, Moldovan, Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Romanian, Bosnian, Kosovar, Macedonian, Albanian and assorted east European donors.

They remove kidneys, lungs, pieces of liver, even corneas, bones, tendons, heart valves, skin and other sellable human bits. The organs are kept in cold storage and air lifted to illegal distribution centers in the United States, Germany, Scandinavia, the United Kingdom, Israel, South Africa, and other rich, industrialized locales. It gives "brain drain" a new, spine chilling, meaning.

Organ trafficking has become an international trade. It involves Indian, Thai, Philippine, Brazilian, Turkish and Israeli doctors who scour the Balkan and other destitute regions for tissues. The Washington Post reported last week that in a single village in Moldova, 14 out of 40 men were reduced by penury to selling body parts.

Last year, Moldova cut off the thriving baby adoption trade due to an - an unfounded - fear the toddlers were being dissected for spare organs. According to the Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, the Romanians are investigating similar allegations in Israel and have withheld permission to adopt Romanian babies from dozens of eager and out of pocket couples. American authorities are scrutinizing a two year old Moldovan harvesting operation based in the United States.

Organ theft and trading in Ukraine is a smooth operation. According to news agencies, last August three Ukrainian doctors were charged in Lvov with trafficking in the organs of victims of road accidents. The doctors used helicopters to ferry kidneys and livers to colluding hospitals. They charged up to $19,000 per organ.

The West Australian daily surveyed in January the thriving organs business in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Sellers are offering their wares openly, through newspaper ads. Prices reach up to $68,000. Compared to an average monthly wage of less than $200, this is an unimaginable fortune.

National health insurance schemes turn a blind eye. Israel's participates in the costs of purchasing organs abroad, though only subject to rigorous vetting of the sources of the donation. Still, a May 2001 article in a the New York Times Magazine, quotes "the coordinator of kidney transplantation at Hadassah University Hospital in Jerusalem (as saying that) 60 of the 244 patients currently receiving post-transplant care purchased their new kidney from a stranger - just short of 25 percent of the patients at one of Israel's largest medical centers participating in the organ business".

Many Israelis - attempting to avoid scrutiny - travel to east Europe, accompanied by Israeli doctors, to perform the transplantation surgery. These junkets are euphemistically known as "transplant tourism". Clinics have sprouted all over the benighted region. Israeli doctors have recently visited impoverished Macedonia, Bulgaria, Kosovo and Yugoslavia to discuss with local businessmen and doctors the setting up of kidney transplant clinics.

Such open involvement in what can be charitably described as a latter day slave trade gives rise to a new wave of thinly disguised anti-Semitism. The Ukrainian Echo, quoting the Ukrinform news agency, reported, on January 7, that, implausibly, a Ukrainian guest worker died in Tel-Aviv in mysterious circumstances and his heart was removed. The Interpol, according to the paper, is investigating this lurid affair.

According to scholars, reports of organ thefts and related abductions, mainly of children, have been rife in Poland and Russia at least since 1991. The buyers are supposed to be rich Arabs.

Nancy Scheper-Hughes, an anthropologist at the University of California at Berkeley and co-founder of Organs Watch, a research and documentation center, is also a member and co-author of the Bellagio Task Force Report on Transplantation, Bodily Integrity and the International Traffic in Organs. In a report presented in June 2001 to the House Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights, she substantiated at least the nationality of the alleged buyers, though not the urban legends regarding organ theft:

"In the Middle East residents of the Gulf States (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Oman) have for many years traveled to India, the Philippines, and to Eastern Europe to purchase kidneys made scarce locally due to local fundamentalist Islamic teachings that allow organ transplantation (to save a life), but prohibit organ harvesting from brain-dead bodies.

Meanwhile, hundreds of kidney patients from Israel, which has its own well -developed, but under-used transplantation centers (due to ultra-orthodox Jewish reservations about brain death) travel in 'transplant tourist' junkets to Turkey, Moldova, Romania where desperate kidney sellers can be found, and to Russia where an excess of lucrative cadaveric organs are produced due to lax standards for designating brain death, and to South Africa where the amenities in transplantation clinics in private hospitals can resemble four star hotels.

We found in many countries - from Brazil and Argentina to India, Russia, Romania, Turkey to South Africa and parts of the United States - a kind of 'apartheid medicine' that divides the world into two distinctly different populations of 'organs supplies' and 'organs receivers'."

Russia, together with Estonia, China and Iraq, is, indeed, a major harvesting and trading centre. International news agencies described, two years ago, how a grandmother in Ryazan tried to sell her grandchild to a mediator. The boy was to be smuggled to the West and there dismembered for his organs. The uncle, who assisted in the matter, was supposed to collect $70,000 - a fortune in Russian terms.

When confronted by the European Union on this issue, Russia responded that it lacks the resources required to monitor organ donations. The Italian magazine, Happy Web, reports that organ trading has taken to the Internet. A simple query on the Google search engine yields thousands of Web sites purporting to sell various body parts - mostly kidneys - for up to $125,000. The sellers are Russian, Moldovan, Ukrainian and Romanian.

Scheper-Hughes, an avid opponent of legalizing any form of trade in organs, says that "in general, the movement and flow of living donor organs - mostly kidneys - is from South to North, from poor to rich, from black and brown to white, and from female to male bodies".

Yet, this summer, bowing to reality, the American Medical Association commissioned a study to examine the effects of paying for cadaveric organs would have on the current shortage. The 1984 National Organ Transplant Act that forbids such payments is also under attack. Bills to amend it were submitted recently by several Congressmen. These are steps in the right direction.

Organ trafficking is the outcome of the international ban on organ sales and live donor organs. But wherever there is demand there is a market. Excruciating poverty of potential donors, lengthening patient waiting lists and the better quality of organs harvested from live people make organ sales an irresistible proposition. The medical professions and authorities everywhere would do better to legalize and regulate the trade rather than transform it into a form of organized crime. The denizens of Moldova would surely appreciate it.

More about this topic here:

http://ceeandbalkan.tripod.com

http://samvak.tripod.com/briefs.html

http://www.ce-review.org/authorarchives/vaknin_archive/vaknin_main.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conflictransition/messages/


Author Bio

Sam Vaknin ( http://samvak.tripod.com ) is the author of Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited and After the Rain - How the West Lost the East. He served as a columnist for Central Europe Review, PopMatters, and eBookWeb , and Bellaonline, and as a United Press International (UPI) Senior Business Correspondent. He is the the editor of mental health and Central East Europe categories in The Open Directory and Suite101.

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Philip  +  129999 Tue, 23 Aug 05 04:55 PM

 Anonymous wrote:
Body:

That would be a charming little story if it were true Philip.
Unfortunately, as it stands it is totally unverifyable, and may well be completely untrue.

The young man's name was Kris Kime.  The story about his 21st birthday party was reported in the June 26, 2001 issue of the Seattle Post-Intellingencer.

I'm not sure how your "rag" on my example was important for validation of your very informative article. 

 

Anonymous, 4 yr 208 days ago
Thanks for the extra information Philip.

I didn't mean to 'rag' (poo-poo?) your example. Too long in the cut and thrust of the news  industry over the years I guess.
Of course the majority of donated organs are probably used quite ethically. It's the ones that are not that troubles me - greatly.

Again thanks for going to the trouble to find the publication details. The story is a nice one, and a good example of organ donation being used the way it is supposed to be. I am glad you found the article I posted interesting too.

I have no doubt that sooner or later ethical behaviour will prevail.

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