why had to be past perfect?

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Anonymous  #430893  Mon, 15 Oct 07 01:19 AM

Hi,

Why it had to be a past perfect here? Could it be something else like a present perfect tense?

They continued playing until all the girls had called bingo.

  
Clive  #430934  Mon, 15 Oct 07 05:32 AM

Hi,

Why it had to be a past perfect here? Could it be something else like a present perfect tense?

They continued playing until all the girls had called bingo.

Past Perfect stresses the sequence of events. However, 'until' also makes the sequence clear, so you could just use Simple Past tense here, ie until the girls called bingo.

You can't use Present Perfect here. It's not a sentence about the present time.

Best wishes, Clive

  
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Neeraj Jain  #431061  Mon, 15 Oct 07 02:55 PM
However, you cannot use present perfect here.
  
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Anonymous  #431621  Wed, 17 Oct 07 01:20 AM

Thank you, Clive, for your help.

Are there any other words, besides the words 'until', 'after' and 'before', that will make the situation clear if used after or before a main clause?  

  
Clive  #431622  Wed, 17 Oct 07 01:42 AM

Hi again,

They continued playing until all the girls had called bingo.

Are there any other words, besides the words 'until', 'after' and 'before', that will make the situation clear if used after or before a main clause? 

If you are just asking generally about words that indicate a sequence of events, there are lots. Here are just a few.

First. Second. Then. Afterwards. Previously. Later. Subsequently. Earlier.

Best wishes, Clive

  
Anonymous  #431721  Wed, 17 Oct 07 12:06 PM

Thank you again, Clive.

Let us with the sentence below and you can tell me which ones -- among 'until', 'after', 'before' and possible others -- can make the use of the past and past perfect possible?

They played tennis until all the girls had said that they had enough of the game.

Are there any other words, beside the word 'until' that will make the situation clear for this sentence and thus, allowing the dual use of the past and past perfect? 

  
Clive  #431741  Wed, 17 Oct 07 02:39 PM

Hi,

Let us with the sentence below and you can tell me which ones -- among 'until', 'after', 'before' and possible others -- can make the use of the past and past perfect possible?

They played tennis until all the girls had said that they had enough of the game. Let's stick with your original example in which the 'until clause' was simpler, OK?

ie They continued playing until all the girls had called bingo.

Are there any other words, beside the word 'until' that will make the situation clear for this sentence and thus, allowing the dual use of the past and past perfect? 

So, you want to lookonly at a sentence of that specific type. And I assume you mean just one word and not a phrase, like 'up to the time that . . . '

No, I can't think of such a word.

If I could change other parts of the sentence, I could say They did not continue playing after all the girls called bingo. But I wouldn't say that has exactly the same meaning as the original.

It doesn't sound quite right to say They continued playing before all the girls called bingo.

Best wishes, Clive

  
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