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Mythical Lady
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312790
Mon, 08 Jan 07 07:53 PM
Hi there,
To me and many Musilms as well, we don't hate people of the Western World. What I really hates is the way the governments of the Western World deal with us imposing themselves as patrons. Who give this laibilty? I don't know, our government passive actions and silent alliance towards whatever these governments do in our lands take most of the blame I think. Yet I don't justify and approve the actions done by those minor people who held themselves as Muslims and are called by others as extermists. Islam and Quran have nothing to do with it, I can assure you, but rather the oppressed actions taken against some Musilms in Palestine, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Bosna, some countries which were a part of the past Soviet Union plus the way the western governments handle our own matters play the most significant role. If those people use Islam as their coverage, they just give Western governments the chance to interfere and reform the way of our own life. It's not for me to judge them but God is all-knowing and the only One who judges with fairness.
Joined on
Wed, May 3 2006
Full Member
232
What lies behind us and what lies before us are TINY matters compared to what lies WITHIN us
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Anonymous,
2 yr 321 days ago
it says nothing about the western world!
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Pidr1nhu
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312862
Tue, 09 Jan 07 01:36 AM
Mythical Lady, You're completely right about the oppression exerted by some western governments. This not only happens in Middle-east but in many countries across the world; it's an inheritance created by globalization and its, sometimes, harmful chain of relations which provides benefits for minorities over a majority left aside. What I would like to stress is the way that some islamic people use to hinder or fight against this oppression, calling for jihad, in another words: WAR which is not a suitable action to confront and reverse this situation. What is needed is: equalization of oppressed countries to a level compatible to those of developed nations by pursuing educational, political and social measures and also giving safeness to their people; achieving these goals any society in world can reverse the present conflict, learning what can be demanded and how can be demanded. Anonymous, as you said the Koran does not mention any actions to be taken against or towards western countries, how ideas of hatred against western nations and citizens, by a part of islamic people, were instituted at a point to flare up the masses? Was that conveyed by the governments of islamic countries or another event? If another, express to us by commenting detailed.
Joined on
Mon, May 30 2005
Brazil
Junior Member
94
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Gingie
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313101
Tue, 09 Jan 07 04:20 PM
Feebs11 wrote: |
How can "New Yorker" possibly insult the Koran - it is a book. A book, however Holy, has no feelings and cannot be insulted. It is people who are insulted.
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Dear friends,
it's my greatest pleasure to explain why Al-Quran is precious for the Muslims, including me..
For Muslims, Al-Quran is not an ordinary book. It is more than just a book. Al-Quran is a derivative of the Arabic word ‘3ara’a’ which means ‘have read/recited’. Therefore, from the literal meaning, Al-Quran means ‘recitation’. However, the figurative meaning of Al-Quran from the Islamic view is more than just a recitation.
‘Al-Quran’ means ‘the miraculous word of Allah that was dictated to Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) through angel Jibrail and written down in Arabic language, by reading every single word of Al-Quran will be rewarded, it starts with surah Al-Fatehah and ends with surah An-nas.’
I really hope that I’ve concisely explained why Al-Quran is very important for the Muslims. Al-Quran is not just a book. It is a sacred book which contains the words of Allah that guide Muslims all over this wide world to be successful in this present life and the Hereafter. As Al-Quran is a part of a pious Muslim’s life, it’s my responsibility to correct any misunderstanding about it.
Sincerely,
Gingie ![Rose [F]](/emoticons/emotion-66.gif)
Joined on
Sat, Jan 14 2006
selangor, Malaysia
Junior Member
52
(^^,)if u do not expect the unexpected, u will not find it. for it is hard to be sought out and difficult ~Heraclitus~
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Feebs11
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313203
Tue, 09 Jan 07 09:21 PM
Other people have sacred books. They deserve as much respect, and do not receive it.
Joined on
Thu, Nov 23 2006
UK
Veteran Member
5,015
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Anonymous,
2 yr 320 days ago
Pidr1nhu wrote: | Mythical Lady, You're completely right about the oppression exerted by some western governments. This not only happens in Middle-east but in many countries across the world; it's an inheritance created by globalization and its, sometimes, harmful chain of relations which provides benefits for minorities over a majority left aside. What I would like to stress is the way that some islamic people use to hinder or fight against this oppression, calling for jihad, in another words: WAR which is not a suitable action to confront and reverse this situation. What is needed is: equalization of oppressed countries to a level compatible to those of developed nations by pursuing educational, political and social measures and also giving safeness to their people; achieving these goals any society in world can reverse the present conflict, learning what can be demanded and how can be demanded. Anonymous, as you said the Koran does not mention any actions to be taken against or towards western countries, how ideas of hatred against western nations and citizens, by a part of islamic people, were instituted at a point to flare up the masses? Was that conveyed by the governments of islamic countries or another event? If another, express to us by commenting detailed.
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we know well it's not the right way we don't stand for it it's definitely not true this is not the point, but the idea that the terrible situation thsoe people live in that made them do so and make them, depressed and lose every sense they don't use their sense they are just a group of depressed people whom depression was affected by what's happening around them as violence and war what do we expect from a child whom his father was killed in front of his eyes or he has been threatened many times through his childhood with guns and the life around him is full of violence due to wars probably, he'll end up a terrorist it's the stress and depressing situation around them push them to such stupid unjustified actions till they reach the extremes with their actions but if those countries don't stress them that much and help them as u said things would be better for sure but again i say they don't think nor do they use their sense their depression (as everybody know depression take over the person and don't let them think properly) and that kind of childhood lead them to such terror that cause mass distruction and make things worse not mentioning that those people haven't been raised is familes to teach them what's rigth or wrong so they'll be an easy target for the terrorists to use them for their horrible actions but u can't deny that something is leading them to do so and their past starting from a bloddy childhood full of violence, they were treated like that in their childhood!
i don't know why should Qur'an be a part of this, hatred came because of past and what the western world (as governments) has done to those Muslims and let them suffer for years (i personaly don't hate the western world nor the westerners) and this is not conveyed at all by the governments on the contrary they are trying their best to stop it but it's more the melishias or the extremists
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Mythical Lady
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313245
Tue, 09 Jan 07 11:40 PM
Allow Pidr1nhu to answer your questions concerning Islam. I am going to put my answer in points to make it much clearer:
1. Your talk about the globalization and its deadly results is true, nevertheless this doesn't give the right to interfere and attack.
2. The call you state for pursuing better standards does actually touch a raw nerve. That's very true. Yet I want to put more emphasis on the fact that goodness of any country starts from the goodness of its own people (particularly those who assume power). so no outsiders please, because as we all know no one would ever place at the head other's interests than his own (not even me!)
3. Keep in mind that No present Islamic country represent the proper Islamic State (as it was in the time of the prophet Mohammad peace be upon him), In addition, some people doing things in the name of Islam are not really acting as Muslims. And there are certain prejudices and biases against Islam in the media and politics.
4.The Holy Quran doesn't mention any action to be taken against western countries. It states rules which as Muslims believe to be most righteous and definitely are not practiced. Jihad means fighting and struggling against wrong doing, evil and oppression; it is the fight whether internal or external against all evils. Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of the religion, or by those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. At the same time, Islam requires one to treat one's enemy mercifully. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees, and livestock. Islam also requires that if an enemy declares his desire to end hostilities and seek peace, the Muslims must do the same. You found in this holy book "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." [2:19] . In short "Jihad means WAR against TERRIORISM" .See that's the true Islam. Now let's compare this with the current situation. In those areas where our rights to live freely is broken, Jihad is our higher purpose like in Palestine, Afghanistan, Bosna and other countries as well. But those actions taken against civilians in western countries (This's completely against Islam) which are done by some in the name of Islam, I believe they are totally wrong. They just bring more ruin to our countries and an excuse for others to intrude. Their actions are not supported by majority of Muslims, nor by Muslims scholars. And God is the One who judges them rightfully.
Do you think it's nice to see your brothers and sisters expelled forcibly from their homes , have their beloved ones killed, some one make a great fun and mockery of your own life and beliefs, see others killing your entire people just to purify the countries from your existence,shut your mouth so as not to speak the truth, use you as a means to prevail and get rid of their own enemies, put in jails to please other powerful countries, say "oh guys you should do this and not do this or else…!.", hold themselves as sponsors terminating your ability to think and behave???
See Pidr1nhu, It's OPPRESSION either external or internal which flares up the masses.
Regards,
P.S Thanks Pidr1nhu for showing sincere desire to know more about the Islamic point of veiw (that's at least what I felt). Hope this helps.
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Pidr1nhu
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313260
Wed, 10 Jan 07 12:52 AM
Hi Mythical Lady, You got my point, and yes you are right when saying about my desire to know about Islam which is being 'deteriorated' (if this is the right expression) by those who use this great religion as base to launch attacks.This static situation of horror is really complexed to be dealt with, all this continuous suffering contributes to greying one's horizon which leads to gloomy perspectives as ANONYMOUS cited: what can you expect from someone who have been suffering all over his life? but everything has a TURNABOUT and Brazil's slums represent this overwhelmingly. Slums were formed by oppresed peasants who migrated from poorer areas to great cities in search of better life and progress, however, what they did found was nothing, all the amazing stories of people who seized their opportunities and established their lives, living in comfort, faded on their memories. Years passed and what has been created among these slums was a strong odor of violence, prostitution, no health care system, no education at all, houses? not exactly houses, huts, very poor huts. What perspectives would you expect them to have? But not everybody is criminal, there you can find respect where you would never think it could have. Organized groups are working to reverse this situation, creating socializing classes to teach these people a job, an occupation, a life. By saying this you can think: what does it have to do with Iraq, we can draw a parallel, Brazil's have one of the biggest rates of violence due to these centers of crime, if i am not wrong, we are the second country in rank, our numbers of violence represent a silent civil war but as volunteers are trying to express: There is always a TURNABOUT.
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Mythical Lady
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313538
Wed, 10 Jan 07 05:26 PM
Hi again,
I believe in the necessity of a turnabout as well. And may be you'd be astonished if I tell that this turnabout in our Muslim nation would be brought about by committing back to the true Islam. I can tell as a Muslim living through this turbulent world that there's a sense of awareness among Muslims youth that our situation would be amended by what amended the early life of our ancestors. Islam has come in an age which was well-known as an age of ignorance, people was used to burying their girl babies when born and racial feeling and many bad things pervading as well. Islam elevated this society from the mire and mud. And we were living our golden years while Europeans living their dark ages. Yet as Muslims we should take the correct action not speculate and regret that great life nor we should interpret the instructions of Islam as we please and use it as a coverage to justify wrong doings and have grudge against non-Muslims civilians. That wouldn't bring peace to us or to others. And perhaps you think what Islam has to do with improving social, political life (while most western people begin to lose faith and firmly believe in the separation of religion and state) because Islam provides a complete way of life not only spiritually but socially and politically. Anyhow organized groups are needed indeed and most of them are playing an effective role in the progress of my country. But I can't see the resemblance between Iraq and Brazil. (Most of my information about Brazil come from football ) But I saw more than one documentaries about life in Brazil, those slums as you say in complete comparison to those richly neighborhood and life in Brazil's prisons. But the situation in Iraq is much more complicated, most times people in Iraq have got mixed and confused who's their enemy? a horrible intrusion by American and British troops and by Iran, distributing Iraq between Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites. Who's really taking control?. We have an old saying I partly agree with ( a land controlled by a dictator is much better than a land without control) I who live a peaceful life away from Iraq have lived that terrible confusion day by day.
My Regards,
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