We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!
Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
ryan smith
+
29768
Thu, 13 May 04 07:42 AM
Thanks Simon for an insightful post and for genuinely trying to look at the situation from another point of view. If more people would actually apply the Golden Rule as you have, the world would be a better place.
"Why do so many Muslims hate the Western World?"
Western World? Do you mean to include France, Germany, Canada, and other Western countries that do not support America's policy of preemptive war? Do you mean to include nearly half of the people in the UK and the US who do not support the war in Iraq? Do you mean to include Japan, which is part of the Eastern World but supports the war in Iraq? The question is flawed. The next best logical answer is that so many Muslims don't hate the Western World.
However, many Muslims may indeed hate the leaders of several Western countries. This is likely due to the reasons that Simon has mentioned above. The Middle East has been exploited by the UK and the US for the last century.
I really, really don't like this question. It assumes that the religion of one people (those who follow Islam) is the source of hatred toward another people (those in the Western Hemisphere).
You're Danish. You eat at a restaurant where you're served by a Portuguese waiter. You think his service is awful, so you don't leave a tip (gratuity) before you leave. He chases you down the street screaming at you. You run home in fear and ask your spouse, "Why do the Portuguese hate us Danish so much?"
Huh? Come again?
Joined on
Tue, Sep 9 2003
CLASSIFIED
Full Member
199
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New Yorker
+
29807
Thu, 13 May 04 09:56 PM
Perhaps I should restate the question, but I think you understand what I mean. I just want to say though; by this I do not mean all Muslims. Don’t think I have a grudge against Islam; I have a close Islamic friend, and wouldn’t hate him because of Muslim terrorists. Like stated above it’s the radical Muslims.
Your hypothetical question is good, but it’s a bit different from what I’m trying express. That’s a bit different from sneaking into a country planting car bomb on numerous occasions, hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings
No I mean western countries that are mainly Christian is where the hate comes in.
Saddam Hussein exploited his own people by using them as test subjects (bombing whole villages with chemical, and biological weapons).
Joined on
Wed, May 5 2004
New York, United States of America
New Member
34
Ronald W. Reagan (1911-2004) Rest in Peace
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ryan smith
+
29831
Fri, 14 May 04 04:03 AM
I know you don't mean all Muslims.
Let's not forget that Hussein was the dictator of a secular state--not a radial Islamic one. So, I don't see your point in trying to demonize him. The US exploited its own people too, secretly injecting US citizens with plutonium* is but one example. Yeah, sure, Hussein was a bad guy, but what does that have to do with radical Muslims hating the West? It doesn't further your argument. That is, unless you can do what the US administration has so far failed to do and show a connection between Iraq and 9.11.
Are you aware that not one of the alleged hijackers is Iraqi? They're mostly Saudis (an ally of the US) and six of them have since been found to be alive.
Here's something that would drive me nuts if I were a Muslim:
The alleged 9.11 hijackers were mainly Saudis, so the US invaded Afghanistan to find bin Laden, a Saudi. They never found bin Laden, so then they attacked Iraq because Hussein was first an imminent threat, but then later just a terrible leader. They found Hussein, but now Iraq is a disaster area, what many are calling the perfect breeding ground for radical Islamic terrorists like bin Laden. Oh, and not a single US civil servant has been fired over 9.11 the greatest ever attack on the mainland US, and no one has yet been charged in the attack (except that one guy in Germany who's case has been thrown out). Meanwhile, while still sending billions in aid to Israel, the US has virtually ignored the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict, which is largely considered to be the root of the entire problem including the 9.11 attack.
Why do radical Muslims hate the US? A better question is why do some Muslims not hate the US?
* here's a book on the subject:
http://www.ftrbooks.net/science/general/plutonium_files.htm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New Yorker
+
29912
Fri, 14 May 04 10:55 PM
That whole plutonium thing is a whole bunch of mumbo-jumbo. It's like the whole issue of Roswell when people said aliens crashed in the desert and the government was covering it up. Both never proven, just rumors.
Not the Iraq issue: As time goes on, nuclear weapons will get easer and easer to build and use. Just ask your self what Saddam would do with a nuke when he finally got one? Operation Iraqi Freedom had a whole list of reasons. Did you hear the speech given by Saddam when 9/11 happened? He said, "the United States is the "apple" of my eye," New York city also known as the Big Apple. I'm not so naive as to think that's not connected. How can you say Saddam wasn't a treat? Afghanistan and Iraq were threats because the provide a safe haven and also provide provisions in the form of money weapons ect. to the terrorists organizations. Countries such as Saudi-Arabia do not support the evil. Bin Laden may be a Saudi, however, he has terrorist camps all over the Arab world.
Personally I wish this war wasn't going on, but it is, and we can't pull out now and let the new Iraqi democracy crumble to the hands of terrorists. As the United Stats always does, we will assist in the rebuilding of Iraq.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ryan smith
+
30059
Sun, 16 May 04 03:32 AM
You can believe what you want.
You can believe that a speech made by Hussein in which he mentioned "apple", translated from Arabic no doubt, is reasonable proof of his connection to 9.11. You can believe that the plutonium issue is mumbo-jumbo despite the reporter winning a Pulitzer Prize for the discovery.
In situations when personal views are reinforced, people seem to require very little evidence. In situations when personal views are challenged, people seem to require mountains of evidence.
You say Saudi Arabia does not support terrorism? Yet, your own government says that nearly all the alleged 9.11 terrorists are/were Saudis. Care to explain?
Tell me, what would have Hussein have done had he acquired nuclear weapons? What's North Korea done since they've got them? Why hasn't the great peace provider of the world invaded North Korea? Why instead invade a country whose leader may or may not have been thinking of getting nuclear weapons? The threat argument is weak.
You've made a lot of claims here (Iraq-9.11 connection, plutonium thing=mumbo-jumbo, Iraq as terrorist safe haven), yet your not giving us any evidence. Oh, and keep in mind that solid evidence may be rather hard to come by since even the highest level supporters of your argument (Powell, Blair, even Bush) have been exposed as having lied or massively exaggerated the truth to further the argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New Yorker
+
30062
Sun, 16 May 04 04:32 AM
Iraq‘s coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist. Details of Atta‘s visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service. The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal‘s base in Baghdad. In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy". The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria. Although Iraqi officials refused to disclose how and where they had obtained the document, Dr Ayad Allawi, a member of Iraq‘s ruling seven-man Presidential Committee, said the document was genuine. "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam‘s involvement with al-Qaeda," he said. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks." Although Atta is believed to have been resident in Florida in the summer of 2001, he is known to have used more than a dozen aliases, and intelligence experts believe he could easily have slipped out of the US to visit Iraq. Abu Nidal, who was responsible for the failed assassination of the Israeli ambassador to London in 1982, was based in Baghdad for more than two decades.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
inglish
+
30079
Sun, 16 May 04 11:48 AM
I think those who claim to be a muslim who are killing innocent figthing against peace,
calling themself a Jeehadi have thought voilence right from theire childhood.
children who has to go to school are sent to terrorsit camps.
Those children need knoledge, not war
Should have books not guns, they must thought love and peace, not hate and revenge
What should we do before a synonym added to Islam=Terrorism, Muslim=Terrorist
What should we do before all Muslim world called war on western world
In my opinion, its the responisibility of those countries who are behaving like world police.
Instead of showing theire power and testing theire newly designed weapons on weeker countries, they should find a solution to handle the situation before the world destroys.
What to be done?
Say-I as Cyrano de Berjerac has said it before.
What to be done? I ask you all?
You, innocent citizens, or famous politicians
You juman beings or humans lost
You, people of this world without pity
Terrorists we are…
Terrorists we remain…
Does not matter what we do
Does not matter how we live
Does not matter what we suffer…
Terrorists we shall remain for all of you
You push us to a dead end
Israel by here,
America is by there
And the big Europe becomes minuscule
En following the steps
Et this world of hypocrisy
Allow rumors to continue
Knowing all the horrors
That victims are transformed by magic
Into oppressors
Silence is gold
Everyone wants to be rich
Silence is gold,
Sleep like an old
And all of us, Palestinians, pay the price you hold
Day of happiness
Wears a dress of sadness
Robe of melancholy
Envelops the smiles of our children with sorrow
And light is darkness
To make a safer passage for the agony
What shall we do? Ask the soldiers of Israel…
A check point by here… another by there…
Let's dig this road
And close that passage
And put some barriers
And while we are here,
Let's build up a new colony
And cut all the trees around
And demolish the houses in the neighborhood
And eliminate all the suspected terrorists
Or those who might be terrorists
One can never trust anyone here
Even the corpses have the smell of terrorism
What to be done?
Stop violence they say
Well, sure, let's stop the violence
Assassinate suspected terrorists
All Palestinians are candidates for terrorism
So let's stop the violence
And forget all about this incidence
Let's forget all the incidences
Let's forget all what Israel have done, or will do
Palestinians have to stop the violence
Palestinians of this century, and centuries to become, pest
Epidemics with no treatment,
Pray for a divine justice
Dream of a brighter future
And ask yet: What to be done?
Change your Coran, and all your holy books
Make a subscription to the mosque
Forget all about your religion
Prayers are harmful for your health
Never talk about your rights
Or those called: refugees
They are the source of all troubles
Eliminating them would be the end of everything
Kneel before the great Israel
The only democracy in the middle east
What Israel says is logical
Its power is magical
And all over the world is well known
And it is feared
And all before the temple
Come to ask pardon
For what the ancestors have committed against the people of Israel
Don't teach your children history
Palestine was nothing but a nightmare
And things are as they should be now
Nothing is equal to the land of "Israel"
And there we are again
Let all the world declare
War against terrorism
And Palestinians rejoin the troupe
And tear each other a part
And cry finally
Live the happy world
Live the war against terrorism
Let us close un office by here
Arrest an activist by there
And destroy every thing
To make happy this sinister world
So that all the ministers
Smile widely and laugh
Of a funereal fun
AbdelFatah Abu-Srour
Joined on
Wed, Sep 10 2003
Secunderabad - India
Full Member
197
Some men sees things as they are and say why???
I sees things that never were and say why not!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
inglish
+
30080
Sun, 16 May 04 11:57 AM
Am I Terrorist
They call my people
blood thirsty terrorists
blowing up buildings and planes
with dynamite tied to their chests
killing civilians by the hundreds
-but am I a terrorist?
True, some of my people
of names similar to mine
do act violently in despair
when their human rights are stolen
when their suffering and plights are ignored
in the refugee camps of Sabra and Chatala.
- but am I a terrorist?
They are not living their faith
just acting on emotions and hate
full with the revenge for the oppressor
with little regard for innocent lives
they are just Muslim in name
-but am I a terrorist?
Islam, the religion of peace
teaches Muslims to respect life
"If anyone had killed one man
except in lieu of murder and mischief
it is as if he killed the whole mankind"
Same verse in Torah and Qur'an too
by the same God
-how could I be a terrorist?
Prophet Mohammad, Peace be upon him,
was a mercy to mankind
he cared for the poor, elderly and sick
even if not from his faith
he stood in respect for a funeral procession of a Jew
he let a cat take a nap on his robe
not to disturb her, he cut his robe
He told Muslim armies not to hurt women and kids
sick and old, cut trees or kill animals just for fun
I love him so much
-how could I be a terrorist?
But why do they call us terrorists?
why not call the IRA, Red Army, Tamil Tigers
Militant Hindus or Serbians terrorists.
Why not call the militia
blowing up government buildings
and killing innocent civilians a terrorist
No, the term is reserved for Muslims
- and I am a Muslim.
We are the victims of terrorism
in Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia and Kosova
by individuals and states
with knives, guns, tanks and rape
-who is a terrorist?
I remember Serb soldiers came to my house
they killed my father and my big brother too
I miss them so much.
They raped my mom and my sister too.
I loved them so much.
Then they burned my house, my books and toys too
- and they call us terrorists.
I got scared, and fled into the woods
joined a caravan going to the border
migrating from oppression to a land of peace and freedom
I have walked two days and climbed a mountain
I am hungry and thirsty, tired and sick
My legs are weak and my feet are bleeding
unable to walk anymore
- do I look like a terrorist?
I am not a terrorist
I am a Muslim
seeking love, peace and justice
My name is Mehmet Poturvic
I am a 6 year old from Kosova
Dear God, please help me and my people.
"You alone I worship, from you alone I seek help"
Love vs Terrorsim - Nikil Parekh
Terrorism indiscriminately divides,
Love is an Omniscient panacea which wholeheartedly
embraces; one and all…
Terrorism treacherously plots,
Love is a flower which diffuses its divinely scent; to
the most remotest corners of this Universe…
Terrorism insidiously massacres,
Love is a seed which blossoms perennially; into the
chapter of blissful prosperity..
Terrorism baselessly orphans,
Love is a cloud which showers happiness; even after
veritably mortal death..
Terrorism tyrannically dictates,
Love is an uninhibitedly cascading stream; which
pacifies one and all…
Terrorism devastates civilizations,
Love is a mystically gorgeous shadow; casting the
unbreakable spell of humanity for centuries
immemorial…
Terrorism perpetuates agonizing hatred,
Love is an Omnipotent ointment; which heals the most
savagely brutal of wounds….
Terrorism evokes ghastly memories,
Love is a fountain; which fulminates every unleashing
second into a river of insatiable ecstasy…
Terrorism diabolically poisons,
Love is the highest peak of unparalleled joy;
overshadowing all wealth and commodity on this
gigantic planet….
Terrorism maliciously mutilates,
Love is an invincible march towards victory; the most
cherished achievement for an organism in its life…
Terrorism gruesomely cripples beyond hope,
Love is an unconquerably formidable armor; which
harbors all religion; tribe; and mankind in its ardent
womb…
Terrorism propagates gory bloodshed,
Love is a fathomless ocean of nostalgic belonging;
which perpetually makes you feel; as if you were just
born…
Terrorism shatters the slimmest hope to live,
Love lends its philanthropic shoulders to the weak and
infirm; making them blossom into cheerful beams of
sheer ebullience…
Terrorism sucks blood tirelessly,
Love spawns countless new lives every instant;
naturally continuing God's more revered chapter of
existence….
Terrorism incessantly plunders and blunders,
Love is a web of melodiously sweet honey; which
nourishes every organism; right from its birth to the
final stage of its inevitable death….
Terrorism irrevocably numbs,
Love is a fireball of unending titillation towering
towards the sky; rejuvenating life with lost charm and
spice…
Terrorism voices its opinions through bullets,
Love is the most successful mission of a persons life;
making him live an infinite heavens; in pragmatically
present life…
Terrorism pulverizes immaculate to raw chowder,
Love is a boat which glides like a prince through the
most tumultuous of storm; transporting its passengers
to the land of beauty and paradise…
Terrorism separates kin from kin,
Love imparts the astronomical tenacity to be live
without the tiniest of breath; yet feel the strongest
entity alive…
Terrorism indefatigably kicks like a dinosaur,
Love besieges each contour of your lips with a
timeless smile; an ardor to live higher than the
clouds; at every stage of life….
Terrorism stumbles even before it alights,
Love is a grandiloquent fortress piercing the souls of
all tangible kind; quelling each desire with its
magical touch…
Terrorism sleazily petrifies,
Love is a bond which grows more firmer as each second
elapses; unshakable against any attack; in this
gigantic world…
Terrorism acrimoniously stings,
Love is a perennially silken feather which puts you to
an eternal slumber; replenishing back an ocean of
enthrallment into your dreary eyes….
Terrorism condemns all rhyme and religion,
Love is a fantastic identity of its own; embracing all
living with the ever pervading spirit of mankind….
Terrorism converts each day into an infinite thorns,
Love is the most fulfilling wish that you could ever
desire; a flame of intimate yearning; escalating
higher than the skies…
Terrorism beheads innocent,
Love is a poignantly bonding wave; which melts the
most invidiously sinister; in its heavenly swirl…
Terrorism uncouthly lambastes at every step,
Love is an everlasting dream of peace; which lingers
till times beyond absolute eternity…
Terrorism disastrously explodes into viciousness,
Love is a brilliantly optimistic ray; which touches
the heart of the rich and miserably deprived; alike….
Terrorism deliberately dismantles,
Love is an intransigently undefeated arrow;
ubiquitously spreading the message of celestial
brotherhood; in every iota of this boundless globe….
Terrorism heinously corrupts,
Love is a sacred apostle of bountiful relationships;
always ensuring you got the very blessed and
harmonious in life…
Terrorism stinks in dungeons of hell,
Love is a tantalizing dewdrop which enchants you
beyond the boundaries of paradise; making you feel the
most richest entity alive…
Terrorism horrendously incinerates,
Love is a torrential downpour of celestial fantasy;
which makes the most pathetically dwindling organism;
entirely oblivious to pain…
Terrorism blasts through existence,
Love is a benevolent culmination of the divine; rising
amicably and unscathed from the ashes; even centuries
after losing breath…
Terrorism horrifically stagnates,
Love is a flirtatiously philandering wind through the
hills; the perfectly symbiotic rudiments of all
existing on this earth…
Terrorism remorsefully regrets,
Love is a mesmerizing voice which proliferates more
stronger as the moments unfurl; blowing away all devil
in a single breath…
Terrorism disrupts resplendent sleep,
Love is a caress which triggers waves of compassionate
electricity; profoundly enlightening the hearts of all
those; impeccably deprived….
Terrorism vandalizes beyond the point of sagacious
control,
Love heals all tottering towards extinction;
irrespective of whether they are poor of unsurpassably
rich…
Terrorism rains hell,
Love is a fairy cuddling your senses into a land of
magnanimous serenity; enriching all your purpose in
destined life…
Terrorism scraps all self-esteem,
Love is a flamboyant patriot; showering an
unfathomable number of lives; for its counterparts in
sorrow….
Terrorism is filthy manipulation,
Love is the greatest poet on the trajectory of this
earth; captivating the most wickedly alien; in the
swirl of its marvelous entrenchment…
Terrorism deteriorates all values,
Love is the pinnacle of irrefutable prosperity;
uplifting your impoverished visage to the Creator;
every time you tread you step on bare soil….
Terrorism rots the entire township,
Love is the air you breathe; the goodness which you
feel; the feeling of benign devotion that profusely
encapsulates each cranny of your robust countenance…
Terrorism monstrously violates,
Love is a stupendously exotic wine; which makes you
perceive only ravishing beauty; till the time you
survive…
Terrorism misleads at every step,
Love is an Omnipresent messiah straight from God's
land; vanquishing each hurdle that dared come your
way…
Terrorism devilishly imprisons,
Love is a bird soaring handsomely in the clouds of
freedom; hoisting all chained that came its way; on
its exuberantly flapping wings….
Terrorism cold bloodedly snatches,
Love is a majestic art with royal shine; illuminating
the most derogatory darkness; with its impregnable
beams of hope yielding light…
Terrorism discordantly abuses,
Love is a charismatic magnet; attracting the most
murderously rash in the untamed inferno of its
passionate beats…
And Terrorism ultimately dies,
While love is the most wonderful gift of Almighty
Lord; a stringent adieu to each deplorable past; an
immortal beginning to every spell binding tomorrow…
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New Yorker
+
30135
Mon, 17 May 04 04:25 AM
Those poems were very touching Inglish. I don't want to offend anybody with what is on this post, but I did my research on the Quran, and this is what I found out; it's the bare truth. The "peaceful" teachings of the Quran…..
"Go fight, fight, fight." So if we want to see fighting, and the killing, in the Quran, let us read the words of the Quran. And I will begin with the words in surat Al Anfal, that is surat 8, and verse 65, "Oh, prophet Mohammed." Listen, Allah is talking to Mohammed because this is what the Muslims believe. "Oh, prophet Mohammed. Urge the Muslims to fight." What? "Oh, prophet Mohammed. Urge the Muslims to fight?" When Jesus spoke to His disciples, He said, "Love your enemy. Pray for those who persecute you." But here, "Oh, prophet Mohammed. Urge the Muslims to fight," fighting is by inciting Muslims to fight. And then, we go to another surat, and that is in the Quran, in surat (Al Bakara, that is surat number 2, verse 216, "Jihad (this is fighting, holy fighting in Allah's name) is ordained for you, Muslims." "fight against those who believe not in Allah; nor in the last day, nor forbid that which have been forbidden by Allah and his messenger Mohammed; and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth, Islam, among the people of the scripture." Who are the people of the scriptures? Jews and Christians. "you fight them until they pay the Gizia, the poll tax, the elevated tax, with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." This is very clear command for Muslims to go and fight Jews and Christians until they defeat them. And if the Christian and the Jew want to keep his religion, he should pay taxes to the Islamic government with his feeling of inferiority. I am a Christian but I am inferior. You, the Muslim, are superior. I am inferior. And you are protecting me, so I pay a poll tax, here is my tax. You buy your religion with taxes?
Well, I commented on that verse in one of my books, and I said, "You can exchange Islam with taxes." It is very plain. Pay taxes, keep your Jewish religion or Christian religion. You can exchange Islam with taxes, money with Islam. And this is here, kill, kill, kill. See, and in many other verses, the Quran is saying what is the punishment of those who are against Allah and his messenger, Mohammed: to be crucified, to cut their hands and their legs, or to be cast away from the society. What kind of religion is that? Killing, killing, killing. Killing is not an invention of fanatics. Killing is in the Quran, and I want to let, to get anybody who is really honest to himself, and tell him, "Tell me, don't talk about friendship." It is very interesting to notice one thing, that in one of the verses of the Quran it says, "Muslims, do not befriend Jews or Christians." Period. But it came of the invasion of Iraq, of Kuwait. The Muslims forgot all about that. And they came to the Christian country, to the US, and said, "Please, help us." But the Quran said don't befriend them, don't ask for their protection, don't go to them for help! There is killing in the Quran, there is torture in the Quran; there is much pain for the people living under the Islamic society if they are Jews or Christians. They are! They are always looked at as second-class citizens. And they don't have the right to stand up and raise their head. They are inferior, and we are the superior, and that is it. I don't think that anybody who reads the Quran could deny what I have said. I mentioned the verse, verse after verse, after verse. But let me tell you, I didn't mention all the verse. There are a lot of verses that tell, that is telling the Muslim, "Go, torture, kill, go, fight, kill."
|
|
|
|
|
|