Will win / are winning

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Liveinjapan

#498777 Thu, 10 Apr 08 04:57 AM

We have trained really hard so I am sure we will win / are winning the match,the day after tomorrow.

I think a correct choice is 'will win because the statement is based on the speaker's opinion.

But if the speaker strongly thought they will win, 'are winning' could be used, right?

Thanks
LiJ

Liveinjapan

Joined on Sun, Feb 4 2007

Osaka, Japan

Contributing Member (1,734)

Please feel free to correct any words I wrote.LiJ

Avangi

#498781 Thu, 10 Apr 08 05:05 AM

I think I know exactly what you mean, and I think it could be used, but I don't believe a native speaker would. I'd say, "will be winning," or "are going to win," or yours, "will win."

Avangi

Joined on Mon, Nov 19 2007

Senior Member (3,690)

". . . le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile." - Henri de Regnier

Liveinjapan

#498784 Thu, 10 Apr 08 05:09 AM

I like 'will be winning'.

Thanks, Avangi.

Liveinjapan

Avangi

#498788 Thu, 10 Apr 08 05:16 AM

You beat my edit again!

I was going to add a possible example of your optional usage:

"We're taking the lead tomorrow, even if we have to cheat." (perhaps in a bicycle race - with the outcome actually unknown)

Or, "Tomorrow we're taking back our lawnmower!" (maybe not)

These would be natural to say, while your example, I think, would not. I'm not sure what the difference is. These examples I've given are sort of threats, showing intention; while your example is simply expressing a belief.

The weather report says it's raining tomorrow. (okay) (There's no question about what the weather report says.)

I'm sure it's raining tomorrow. (unlikely)

I'm sure it will be raining tomorrow. (okay)

Avangi

Liveinjapan

#498803 Thu, 10 Apr 08 06:06 AM

That's how your quick replies are welcomed. Thanks again, Avangi.

Liveinjapan

CalifJim

#498808 Thu, 10 Apr 08 06:42 AM

The present progressive of an 'achievement' verb indicates that the achievement seems imminent. The achievement looks as if it is about to happen. An achievement verb is a verb that expresses an action that takes place at an instant in time. For example, if you run in a race, you don't actually win until you cross the finish line (before everyone else in the race). If during the course of the race it appears that you may win, the present progressive can be used: "I'm winning". This usage is contrary to the use of the present progressive with other types of verbs, for example, "I'm listening to the radio" does not mean that it looks like I may listen to the radio! It means that I am currently engaged in the activity of listening to the radio.

The upshot of all this is that We're winning the match is inappropriate before there are any tangible signs that winning is imminent. In your example, you need We'll win the match.

Another achievement verb is recognize. You can't comfortably say I'm recognizing him when I see him tomorrow. You need I'll recognize ...

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,568)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Present progressive, Verbs

Avangi

#498814 Thu, 10 Apr 08 07:06 AM

Hi Jim,

Do we acknowledge the use of present progressive where it means future?

As in, "I'm taking you to the doctor tomorrow." = "I'm going to take you to the doctor tomorrow." = "I'll be taking you to the doctor tomorrow."

Thanks for your help. - A.

Avangi

Present progressive

Liveinjapan

#498815 Thu, 10 Apr 08 07:09 AM

CalifJim
The present progressive of an 'achievement' verb indicates that the achievement seems imminent.

Thanks, CJ.

Got it!

Liveinjapan

Present progressive, Verbs

CalifJim

#498817 Thu, 10 Apr 08 07:21 AM

Avangi
Do we acknowledge the use of present progressive where it means future?

Yes, for verbs other than achievement verbs (and even for some achievement verbs in the right contexts, involving how plannable the event is, I'm guessing), the present progressive can express future time.

Strictly speaking, according to some grammarians, it's not the verb, but the entire predicate that's involved. But that's a theoretical argument, and I don't know if it's ever been completely resolved.

In any case to take someone to the doctor is not an achievement (The technical term is accomplishment), because at all points during the taking of someone to a doctor, it can truly be said that the taking is in progress. Thus, to take someone to a doctor is not in the same category grammatically as to win a match.

These categories of 'event types' were first set up by Vendler, a name you might Google if you want to know more about it.

CalifJim

Present progressive, Verbs, Predicates

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