Wish

1 2 3
   Share on Facebook  
Hela  #64205  Thu, 30 Dec 04 05:36 AM
Hello everyone,

Here I am again with questions on the subjunctive:

A/ Last time we saw that a) "It WAS high time we went" was correct, but what does it mean exactly? And is b) "It WAS (high) time we had gone" correct ? If yes, what would it mean?

B/ Are the following sentences correct ? If not, why?

1) a) Iwould rather you told her the truth. (now or tomorrow)
(je préfèrerais que vous lui disiez la vérité)

b) I would rather you had told her the truth. (yesterday)
(J'aurais aimé / préféré que vous lui ayez dit la vérité)

2) a) Tom would rather read than talk. (bare infinitive)
(Tom préfère lire plutôt que parler)

b) Tom would rather have read than talked ??? (perfect infinitive)
(Tom aurait préféré lire plutôt que parler)?


Would you have some better sentences with the infinitive forms, please? And for those who understand French I just put the translation to check if I understood the English sentences well.

Many thanks.

Kind regards,
Hela

PS: Can somebody tell me where, on the net, I can find plenty of :
- sentences with "so that" + indicative or subjunctive;
- exercises of "grammar in context" (on tenses and may other things) ?
  
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on Mon, Nov 15 2004
Tunisia
Regular Member (831)
Mister Micawber  #64259  Thu, 30 Dec 04 11:01 AM

Hi Hela,

A/ a) "It was high time we went" -- 'high' time is the last available time, the critical time, the last time before it will be too late. This sentence means that it is getting very late and the hosts would probably like them to leave; or, the train departs in 10 minutes and it takes 9 minutes to drive to the station from here; or, they have been meaning to see The Last Samurai Part II for two weeks now, and it will be leaving the theatre soon; etc.

b) is wrong; I cannot make sense of it.

B/ All are correct, as annotated by you. (I speak for the English, not for the translation.)


There are all kinds of uses of the infinitive, Hela; I could hardly supply examples of all of them, but googling turns up lots of pages; similarly, you will have about as much luck as I in finding 'so that' and other grammar exercises on the internet. I don't know any specific sites; I would just start googling. Maybe some other mods have bookmarked some.


  
Top 10 Contributor
Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004
Yokohama
Veteran Member (22,347)
SystemAdministratorTeachers
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'
Hela  #64295  Thu, 30 Dec 04 02:09 PM
Thank you Mr Micawber for your reply.

Just to be sure, is "Tom would rather HAVE READ a book than (HAVE) WATCHED a boring football match" a correct English sentence ?

Thanks again and I wish you a very happy new year.

Yours sincerely,
Hela
  
Mister Micawber  #64302  Thu, 30 Dec 04 04:06 PM

Yes, but it occurs to me that it should be 'would have rather read a book than watched a boring football game' for the sake of parallelism.


And a Happy New Year to you, too. Ah, me!-- what will 2005 bring?

  
Hela  #64305  Thu, 30 Dec 04 04:22 PM
Dear Mister Micawber,

It seems that my list of questions for the year 2004 is not finished yet. Before having a rest, if ever we let you do so, would you please tell me if "might" in the following sentences is a subjunctive ?

1) They worked day and night SO THAT the building MIGHT BE finished in time.

2) The Indians tribes were wiped out SO THAT civilization MIGHT advance.

Have a nice day (it has been raining all day at home) and I hope you'll enjoy yourself tomorrow.

Even if it doesn't look like it, let's hope for the best for the year 2005.

Wish you all prosperity and good health,
Hela




  
Mister Micawber  #64417  Fri, 31 Dec 04 05:34 AM
I've tried to find my way through the maze of our past conversation here, Hela, and I see that I have made at least one obvious mistake, and that you were correct in part of your original assumption. I have reviewed my understanding of the Subjunctive Mood, and this sentence-- 'If I caught you, I would eat you'-- is certainly not present subjunctive, it is just a conditional sentence in which we use the past form of the verb for possible future.


I have found myself without a clear understanding of the subjunctive, and I think I had better lay out the terms of the subjunctive in English (from Greenbaum & Quirk) for both of our benefits:

I. There are two forms of the subjunctive, called present and past.

-- The present subjunctive in all persons is 'be' for the verb 'to be', and the base form for all other verbs. Thus:
---- They prefer that I be quiet.
---- They suggested that I be quiet.
---- They have requested that he remain in the country.
---- They will be demanding that he not leave the country.

-- The past subjunctive exists only in one form, 'were', as a past form of 'to be':
---- If I were better informed, I could teach English.


II. There are two main uses of the present subjunctive, the mandative and the formulaic.

-- The mandative subjunctive is used in a 'that'-clause after a verb, adjective or noun of demand, recommendation, proposal, intention or similar notion:
---- I insisted that she stay for dinner.
---- It is necessary that the Eiffel Tower be repainted.
---- The requirement that the president resign for defalcation is fixed in stone.

-- The formulaic subjunctive is used in certain set expressions:
---- Come what may, I shall always be your friend.
---- God bless America.

III. There is one main use for the past subjunctive ('were'). It is used in conditional and concessive clauses and in subordinate clauses after 'wish' and 'suppose':
---- If I were you, I would not quit the day job.
---- He acts as though he were the lord of the realm.
---- I wish he were not so demanding.

It also appears in the stock phrase, 'as it were': He was, as it were, a little dictator.


Those are the limits of the use of the subjunctive in English. Other forms of expression exist as equivalents of the subjunctive, such as:

I insist that he should finish quickly.
I wish I was dead.

I apologize for my earlier confusion, and I hope you will review our previous discussion in the light of this more accurate summary.

(I will get to your latest questions in another post.)
  
Mister Micawber  #64418  Fri, 31 Dec 04 05:44 AM

Therefore, these dependent clauses are not in a subjunctive:

1) They worked day and night SO THAT the building MIGHT BE finished in time.
2) The Indians tribes were wiped out SO THAT civilization MIGHT advance.

They are simply putative clauses of result, which require the modal of possibility.


You have rain, and we have an amazing carpet of light, fluffy snow, the first of the year. Finally, it looks like Christmas!

  
Hela  #64441  Fri, 31 Dec 04 09:00 AM
Good morning Mister Micawber,

So if I understood well what you said, the modals in the following sentences are not in the subjunctive but rather in the conditional mood.

1) I was afraid it MIGHT snow; so I stayed home.

2) However cold it MIGHT be, he would have a cold shower.

3) I arrived early so that I COULD get a good view of the procession.

4) I arrived early so that I SHOULD / WOULD not miss anything.

Correct ?

Kind regards,
Hela
  
Mister Micawber  #64450  Fri, 31 Dec 04 10:20 AM
Yes. However, we must remember that 'conditional' is not a mood, it is merely a kind of sentence.

In English, there are three moods-- indicative, imperative and subjunctive; two voices-- active and passive; and three aspects-- simple, perfect and continuous.

  
1 2 3
AddThis Feed Button RSS Feed: ESL General English Grammar Questions
© 2008 MediaCET Ltd.
Terms and Conditions & Terms of Service