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milky

#269830 Wed, 20 Sep 06 01:24 PM

The rule, if it is a rule at all, is a nonsense. It does not help students understand the way in which native speakers give reports. The backshift "rule" tells only a part of the story.

milky

Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2004

Senior Member (3,149)

Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".

Inchoateknowledge

#269833 Wed, 20 Sep 06 01:30 PM

I like all chocolates that are brown
I wish I liked all the chocolates that are brown.

My question:
Why the second sentence may be backshifted, the first mayn't.

Inchoateknowledge

Joined on Wed, May 3 2006

Senior Member (2,536)

Beep! Beep! :)

Alienvoord

#269904 Wed, 20 Sep 06 03:44 PM

Inchoateknowledge wrote:
Alienvoord wrote:

I wish I knew what is happening next week.
I wish I knew what was happening next week.

Neither of these is wrong, but the second sounds much more natural to me.

In indirect speech, "next" becomes "the next" in past tense
The second sentence is incorrect.

A sentence that sounds completely normal to native English speakers is incorrect?

Inchoateknowledge wrote:

I like all chocolates that are brown
I wish I liked all the chocolates that are brown.

My question:
Why the second sentence may be backshifted, the first mayn't.

After "wish", you use the simple past tense.

Alienvoord

Joined on Tue, Jul 25 2006

Toronto

Full Member (317)

I'm a Canadian English speaker

milky

#269912 Wed, 20 Sep 06 04:12 PM

Inchoateknowledge wrote:
I like all chocolates that are brown
I wish I liked all the chocolates that are brown.

My question:
Why the second sentence may be backshifted, the first mayn't.

The simple past form of the English verb is used for three things:

distance in time

distance in social relationships

distance regarding possibility

Your second example is using the past simple form to express distance regarding possibilty. It's contra-to fact.

milky

Verbs, Simple past, Past simple

Anonymous

#269971 Wed, 20 Sep 06 06:28 PM

Hi Milky,

You mean "chocolates that are brown" should express distance of possibility?
I think the only thing that is a matter of possibility is my liking to brown chocolates, but not what chocolate it is.

Anonymous

Inchoateknowledge

#269973 Wed, 20 Sep 06 06:28 PM

Inchoateknowledge

Yoong Liat

#269989 Wed, 20 Sep 06 07:10 PM

Inchoateknowledge wrote:
I like all chocolates that are brown
I wish I liked all the chocolates that are brown.

My question:
Why the second sentence may be backshifted, the first mayn't.

The reason is 'wish' indicates that something is unlikely or cannot happen.

I wish I were a king. (The fact is I cannot become a king.)

I wish I were taller. (The same reason applies.)

I wish I could top the class. ( I know that topping the class is not within my ability.)

Yoong Liat

Joined on Mon, Sep 4 2006

Singapore

Veteran Member (6,085)

Yoong Liat

milky

#269990 Wed, 20 Sep 06 07:10 PM

Anonymous wrote:
Hi Milky,

You mean "chocolates that are brown" should express distance of possibility?
I think the only thing that is a matter of possibility is my liking to brown chocolates, but not what chocolate it is.

This was your question;

<<I wish I liked all the chocolates that are brown.

My question:
Why the second sentence may be backshifted, the first mayn't.>>

My answer referred to that.

milky

Anonymous

#270179 Thu, 21 Sep 06 01:49 AM

Look:

I wish I knew what was happening right now.
I wish I knew what was happening yesterday. ( also: ...what had happened yesteday)
I wish I knew what would happen tomorrow.
I wish I had known what... (the tenses are used as in the above sentences but time adverbs change as in reported speech)

Present tenses (present perfect included) would not sound as natural as those I mentioned (but you might find them in careless, casual speech, where you just say the first thing that comes to your mind -- Ex: chatrooms).

Sad but true

Steward

Anonymous

Verbs, Tenses, Adverbs, Present tenses, Present perfect

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