wish clauses

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MrCurious

#429000 Tue, 09 Oct 07 07:19 PM

Yoong Liat wrote:
MrCurious wrote:
Yoong Liat wrote:
Hi, Yoong Liat,
Your sentence above is wrong I think because the subject of "would" can never be the same as the subject of "wish"

Hi MrCurious

The following sentences are for your information.

I wish she would stop singing. (Basic English Usage by Michael Swan)
I wish he would knock before coming in. (Times-Chambers Essential English Dictionary)
I wish he would do as he's told. (Right Word Wrong Word by L. G. Alexander)

Hello Yoong Liat,

I'm repeating my words again. the subject of "would" can never be the same as the subject of "wish"

In your examples, the subjects are different

I wish she would stop singing. (Basic English Usage by Michael Swan)
I wish he would knock before coming in. (Times-Chambers Essential English Dictionary)
I wish he would do as he's told. (Right Word Wrong Word by L. G. Alexander)

I don't understand what you're talking about. Can you illustrate with examples? Amy has already explained to you that my sentence is correct and you insist that it's wrong. I've reproduced the above sentences from authorities on English and you say the subjects are different. Please elaborate.

Best wishes.

Now that you put the famous grammarians on a pedestal, let me cite you the following extract from "A Practical English Grammar by A.J THOMSON A.V MARTINET" Page 202

"....Note that the subject of wish cannot be the same as the subject of would, as this would be illogical. We cannot therefore have I wish + I would"

But we can ofcourse say : I wish he would...../I wish they would etc....

Best wishes.

MrCurious

Joined on Mon, Aug 27 2007

New Member (48)

Silence!

Goodman

#429015 Tue, 09 Oct 07 07:45 PM

Feathers wrote:

I've learned recently that the word "informal" has a fairly positive connotation, that is ...

# Characteristic of or suitable, appropriate to ordinary, casual or familiar use.

# Being more appropriate for use in the spoken language than in the written language.
_______________________________________________________________

Dear Goodman, I agree that I wish I were is correct and formal, there's no question about it, but ... your primary source (EnglishClub.com) also says I wish I was form "is possible in informal, familiar conversation."

There's no need to get excited.... is it?

Dear Feather,

I apologize if I have made some of you uneasy with my reaction. Perhaps I got a little overly reacted. In case we don't remember, counless learners come to this forum to get the correct anwers. Correct me if I am wrong, what is deemed correct is primarily bound and judged by a known set of rules we call grammar. When we deivate from it, then the purpose for all discussions is lost. I understand, there are many of us who come from various backgrounds and depth of English, therefore the persecptives are different. I am not an expert on the subject but I stride to learn and use my English the way it's supposed to be used. What kills me is that, some people chose to quote from only the source that agrees with his view and ignore the opposing one. What is formal or informal? I hear "I wish I were/ was" equally frequent and there is nothing formal about it. I am not a born native, that's the reason I trained myself to be open-minded to all sources for learning. If we chose to be selective, there is a chance that we learn something incorrectly and may not know it. But I digress.

Goodman

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005

Calif. USA

Senior Member (3,243)

The name says it all!

Grammar, Conversations

Yoong Liat

#429025 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:11 PM

MrCurious wrote:
Yoong Liat wrote:
MrCurious wrote:
Yoong Liat wrote:
Hi, Yoong Liat,
Your sentence above is wrong I think because the subject of "would" can never be the same as the subject of "wish"

Hi MrCurious

The following sentences are for your information.

I wish she would stop singing. (Basic English Usage by Michael Swan)
I wish he would knock before coming in. (Times-Chambers Essential English Dictionary)
I wish he would do as he's told. (Right Word Wrong Word by L. G. Alexander)

Hello Yoong Liat,

I'm repeating my words again. the subject of "would" can never be the same as the subject of "wish"

In your examples, the subjects are different

I wish she would stop singing. (Basic English Usage by Michael Swan)
I wish he would knock before coming in. (Times-Chambers Essential English Dictionary)
I wish he would do as he's told. (Right Word Wrong Word by L. G. Alexander)

I don't understand what you're talking about. Can you illustrate with examples? Amy has already explained to you that my sentence is correct and you insist that it's wrong. I've reproduced the above sentences from authorities on English and you say the subjects are different. Please elaborate.

Best wishes.

Now that you put the famous grammarians on a pedestal, let me cite you the following extract from "A Practical English Grammar by A.J THOMSON A.V MARTINET" Page 202

"....Note that the subject of wish cannot be the same as the subject of would, as this would be illogical. We cannot therefore have I wish + I would"

But we can ofcourse say : I wish he would...../I wish they would etc....

Best wishes.

Hi MrCurious

Things I Wish I Would Be More Serious About

No one is perfect, even-though we strive to be, or do we? Anyway, that is for another blog post. There are things that I wish I was more serious about.
www.cartoonbarry.com/2007/05/things_i_wish_i_would_be_more.html - 39k - Cached - Similar pages

Yoong Liat

Joined on Mon, Sep 4 2006

Singapore

Veteran Member (6,085)

Yoong Liat

Grammar, English grammar

Yoong Liat

#429029 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:19 PM

Hi Goodman

In BrE, you can either say "I wish I was' or 'I wish I were', which is rather formal. In AmE, you should use 'were'. I wish I were ten years younger. (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English)

Best wishes.

Yoong Liat

Goodman

#429033 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:34 PM

Hi MrCurious,

"....Note that the subject of wish cannot be the same as the subject of would, as this would be illogical. We cannot therefore have I wish + I would"

But we can of course say : I wish he would...../I wish they would etc....

I think you and I are reading the same page. As far a [ I wish] is concerned, [could] is the correct answer if traditional grammar is still true. "I wish I could do more, but I couldn't". "Would" is illogical, my view exactly. "Could" imply the ability to do something. as in "I wish I could be more helpful (after I have done all I can)". "would" implies will / intent to do something. "I wish I would", although it sound ok, but it's illogical and incorrect in my opinion as well.

Goodman

Grammar

Feathers

#429035 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:44 PM

Hi all, sorry for butting in again...
Goodman, no need to apologize, I really like your straightforward personality. I'm learning a lot from your posts -- you have a good command of English, as Yoong Liat said. I was a bit surprised, though -- I thought you'd be the first one to claim that the set of grammar rules is not everything ... Smile [:)]

(I'm reminded of something, by the way... Steven Pinker said one of these days that "people do have very strong feelings about what's correct and incorrect in language, which is a mystery to linguists because there actually isn't anyone who decides what's correct or incorrect." )

Feathers

Joined on Thu, Jul 6 2006

Full Member (226)

Grammar

Yoong Liat

#429036 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:45 PM

Goodman wrote:
Hi MrCurious,

"....Note that the subject of wish cannot be the same as the subject of would, as this would be illogical. We cannot therefore have I wish + I would"

But we can of course say : I wish he would...../I wish they would etc....

I think you and I are reading the same page. As far a [ I wish] is concerned, [could] is the correct answer if traditional grammar is still true. "I wish I could do more, but I couldn't". "Would" is illogical, my view exactly. "Could" imply the ability to do something. as in "I wish I could be more helpful (after I have done all I can)". "would" implies will / intent to do something. "I wish I would", although it sound ok, but it's illogical and incorrect in my opinion as well.

Hi Goodman

Please see the above post regarding "I wish I would ..."

Yoong Liat

Grammar

Yoong Liat

#429037 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:46 PM

Goodman wrote:
Hi MrCurious,

"....Note that the subject of wish cannot be the same as the subject of would, as this would be illogical. We cannot therefore have I wish + I would"

But we can of course say : I wish he would...../I wish they would etc....

I think you and I are reading the same page. As far a [ I wish] is concerned, [could] is the correct answer if traditional grammar is still true. "I wish I could do more, but I couldn't". "Would" is illogical, my view exactly. "Could" imply the ability to do something. as in "I wish I could be more helpful (after I have done all I can)". "would" implies will / intent to do something. "I wish I would", although it sound ok, but it's illogical and incorrect in my opinion as well.

Hi Goodman
Please see the above post regarding "I wish I would ..."

Yoong Liat

Grammar

Yoong Liat

#429039 Tue, 09 Oct 07 08:50 PM

Hi Feathers

I remember vividly that Goodman often says that the set of grammar rules is not everything. That's why I'm surprised that he is so particular about grammar rules on this occasion.

Yoong Liat

Grammar

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