wish clauses

Feathers wrote:

Hi all, sorry for butting in again... Goodman, no need to apologize, I really like your straightforward personality.  I'm learning a lot from your posts -- you have a good command of English, as Yoong Liat said.  I was a bit surprised, though -- I thought you'd be the first one to claim that the set of grammar rules is not everything ... (I'm reminded of something, by the way... Steven Pinker said one of these days that "people do have very strong feelings about what's correct and incorrect in language, which is a mystery to linguists because there actually isn't anyone who decides what's correct or incorrect." )

Hi Feather,

You are quite observant. I am the kind of people who shoot  as straight as an arrow That- sometimes works against me.  English is almost like a bible, depending who is reading it, the meaning and the truth varies. Even the laws are subject to interpreations. That's why there are lawyer to interprete (or mis-interprete for that matter) the laws. Rules and laws are guidelines and with English, I try hard to abide within the boundries. Mr. Liat has insinuated that I am flip-floping conveniently to advance my case. I may have said something in the way Mr. Liat described in the past and I can't remember when and why, rest assured, I was saying that with grammar rules in mind. I love this language and I am still trying to polish and perfect it. To me, there is no compromis to strieving for perfection. As to your comment, that's why we have grammar rules.

Goodman wrote:

Yankee wrote: Did you read the rest of my post, MrC?  I attempted to make it clear why YL's sentence works. The danger in stating absolute rules in prescriptive grammar is that doing so doesn't allow for legitimate exceptions. For example, many grammar books state that the word 'would' may not be used in an IF-clause.  That is incorrect.  While that rule is usually true, there are times when using 'would' is perfectly acceptable and grammatical in an IF-clause. Hi Amy, We don’t always agree on everything but  I do respect your credentials in English. If you don’t mind, I would like to hear your opinions. The correct usage of “were” and “was” with the “I wish” construction definitely has become a heated debate.  According to traditional English (the kind I have learned), the “I wish I were” or “if”  and several other conditional constructions are called “subjunctive” which most native and learners are very familiar with. There are few of those who believe “I wish I was …” is also correct. It’s true that many people use it this way, however, it doesn’t mean it’s a changing trend, and therefore it’s correct to use. True, the user may say whatever he prefers. But when we are on this forum to discuss English, don't you think we all need to conform to the rules of the traditional English? Do you agree?  Many respected grammar books now accept 'was' in addition to 'were' in Type 2 IF-sentences as well as in 'wish' sentences.  Personally, I would still make it a point to use 'were' in a formal context, but the use of 'was' does seem to be on the rise -- especially in informal contexts.   Having said that, based on the principle of subjunctive, this “was " usage is incorrect in my opinion, whether it’s accepted as mainstream English or otherwise.  If something is accepted in mainstream English, why would you want to reject it completely? Obviously, even the English Authorities have varying degrees of opinions, some said it’s incorrect while some said it’s acceptable.  My argument is not so much to find out who is right, rather, what the believers’ argument is based on. Clearly the “I wish I …..” is a conditional sentence, which is “subjunctive”. So if one insists on using this “I wish I was” construction and to have the twisted attitude to ask  why I keep insisting on  the rules of subjunctive, I feel the warped discussion is over.  If you don’t mind, would  shed some light on the subject? And would you call ithe "was" usage a changing trend and therefore it’s acceptable?  Language is a living, breathing animal.  It changes and grows with time.  Parts of it sometimes die, new usages sprout.  It changes because of actual usage, often in spite of what grammarians would have us do.  If yo ufeel uncomfortable answering these direct questions, I do understand. Thanks

Amy,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your answers I am sure made Mr. Liat beaming in smiles.  Here is a  question, if a teacher is correcting his student’s home work in which students are to write a composition about  what they wish for. One wrote  “ I wish I was ten feet tall” and the teacher realized that he  has been teaching his student all along “ I wish I were…” as the correct form. Do you think he should mark his home work wrong?

If you said it’s a prevailing trend that people are using “was” in the “I wish” context, I take it as your agreement to the usage. That’s ok.  That said, I am sure many others feel the way I do.  Perhaps in time I may be swayed, until then, I will keep using the “more” correct form, as some others would call it. Cheers

GOOD!

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