woman alive

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paco2004

#145810 Sat, 08 Oct 05 09:13 AM

Hello CJ

How about this? "I was shocked to see my Japanese girlfriend eating fish alive. She ate them with her intensely alive face." Does this sound unnatural to you?

paco

paco2004

Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004

Senior Member (4,095)

In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.

Anonymous

#145815 Sat, 08 Oct 05 09:28 AM

Sorry for the interruption. I wonder if 'alive' would be able to work as an sentential adverb. I'd read it as an object complement, as MrP does.

Anonymous

Verbs, Adverbs

paco2004

#145827 Sat, 08 Oct 05 11:07 AM

Hello Anon

I am not a grammarian, and so I am afraid I don’t know what the term "object complement". But I know in some sentences of the pattern SVOC, the so-called objective complement (C) works as a constituent indispensable to make sense. Take a sentence "She always keeps the house tidy" for example. Here "tidy" is indispensable to make the sentence meaningful. "She always keeps the house" alone could mean something but the meaning is different from that of "She always keeps the house tidy". So "tidy" here is an indispensable constituent of the whole sentence. But in the case of "They burned the woman alive", "They burned the woman" alone makes sense and means an event. The word "alive" gives to it an additional information, that is, how the woman was when the event happened. From this point I parse this "alive" as a sort of sentential adverb. Hope you get what I mean.

paco

paco2004

Verbs, Adverbs

Anonymous

#145839 Sat, 08 Oct 05 11:47 AM

Yes, I understand your expanation. Thank you, paco.
Semanticaly, however, 'alive' should be taken as a modifier of 'woman,' not of the sentence 'They burned the woman,' even though it express the complete thought as it stands.

It's a trifle matter, though.

Regards,

Anonymous

Regards

K.O.

#145840 Sat, 08 Oct 05 11:49 AM

'Rescuers are trying to reach dozens of residents feared trapped in collapsed buildings in Islamabad.'

Hi,

the case in this sentence is resembling the 'woman alive' example, somehow. If it were 'residents trapped in collapsed buildings' (leaving out 'feared') past participle the 'trapped' would be an adjective, I think. But what is the condition of 'feared ', is it an adjective either? Thanks.

K.O.

Joined on Sat, Jun 4 2005

Turkey

Full Member (180)

.O.

Anonymous

#145847 Sat, 08 Oct 05 12:12 PM

Hello K.O. I'd take 'feared' also as a past participle used as an adjective. I'm not a grammar expert either, sorry.

Anonymous

Grammar

paco2004

#145853 Sat, 08 Oct 05 12:26 PM

Anonymous wrote:
Semanticaly, however, 'alive' should be taken as a modifier of 'woman,' not of the sentence 'They burned the woman,' even though it express the complete thought as it stands.

Hello Anon

Thank you for the quick reply. I'd like to know the reason(s) that we should take 'alive' as a modifier of 'woman'. Could you kindly give me a more detailed explanation? Thank you in advance.

paco

paco2004

Anonymous

#145857 Sat, 08 Oct 05 12:50 PM

Hello paco (sorry, there were several typos in my previous post).
I'd be glad if I could be of some help. Frankly speaking, however, I'm not sure what is on your mind. 'Alive' as a predicative adjective simply cannot be a sentential adverb.

Would you mind if I quote some lines from [link]
..................................................................................................
... it is seen that adverbs fall into a number of different categories. For example, Some adverbs can be used to modify an entire sentence, whereas others can not. Even when a sentential Adverb has other functions, the meaning is often not the same.

For example, in the sentences She gave birth naturally and Naturally, she gave birth, the word naturally has different meanings (actually the first sentence could be interpreted in the same way as the second, but context makes it clear which is meant).

'Naturally' as a sentential Adverb means something like "of course" and as a verb-modifying Adverb means "in a natural manner".

The "hopefully" controversy (described below) demonstrates that the class of sentential adverbs is a closed class (there is resistance to adding new words to the class), whereas the class of adverbs that modify verbs is not.
..................................................................................................

Anonymous

Verbs, Numbers, Adverbs

paco2004

#145858 Sat, 08 Oct 05 12:54 PM

Hello K.O.

I read you sentence as "Rescuers are trying to reach dozens of residents (who are) feared (to be) trapped in collapsed buildings in Islamabad" or "Rescuers are trying to reach dozens of residents (when they are) feared (to be) trapped in collapsed buildings in Islamabad"

I think the sentence is a bit too much elided to catch the exact sense. If my second reading is right, it resemble "They burned the woman alive".

paco

paco2004

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