worse/worst

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Yoong Liat  #442612  Wed, 14 Nov 07 06:52 PM
if (when) worse (worst) come(s) to worst

Hi Goodman

Just to confirm: Is there a typo? If worst come to worst

  
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Yankee  #442617  Wed, 14 Nov 07 07:07 PM
Hi YL

If the word 'come' is used, then it would be subjunctive.  I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone use this idiom with the subjunctive, though.

  
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Goodman  #442619  Wed, 14 Nov 07 07:08 PM
 New2grammar wrote:

It brings up another problem. How many variations are there? The parentheses confuses me. Sad [:(]

I believe there are 8 as follows:

if worse come to worst

if worst comes to worst - Depending on your logic level, this one is also accepted, not necessarily the correct usage. Some believe "worst to worst" just does not sound logical!

if worst come to worst

if worse comes to worst---This is the most commonly heard and used. It means "from a not-so- good state to the very bad". 

when worse comes to worst ---This is the locution of the blue one above

when worse come to worst

when worst come to worst

when worst comes to worst - Also heard and used. But this has a slightly different complexion in meaning. In a nutshell, it mean "when the worst comes to materialize".

My interpretatin of your questions:

if worse come to worst

if worst comes to worst - Depending on your logic level, this one is also accepted, not necessarily the correct usage. Some believe "worst to worst" just does not sound logical! However it can mean, "if the worst is to materialize..."

if worst come to worst

if worse comes to worst---This is the most commonly heard and used. It means "from a not-so- good state to the very bad". 

when worse comes to worst ---This is the locution of the blue one above

when worse come to worst

when worst come to worst

when worst comes to worst - Also heard and used. But this has a slightly different complexion in meaning. In a nutshell, it means "when the worst comes to materialize".

  
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Yankee  #442622  Wed, 14 Nov 07 07:19 PM
Just to add a little more confusion to this thread, I'd like to mention that I've also heard this idiom used with 'came' (i.e. in a sentence with the same format as a type 2 conditional).  I've just never actually heard it used with the subjunctive 'come'.


  
Yoong Liat  #442651  Wed, 14 Nov 07 08:33 PM
 Yankee wrote:
Just to add a little more confusion to this thread, I'd like to mention that I've also heard this idiom used with 'came' (i.e. in a sentence with the same format as a type 2 conditional).  I've just never actually heard it used with the subjunctive 'come'.

Just to clear things up.
I don't understand why Kenneth G. Wilson wrote: 'if worst come to worst' as it is grammatically wrong.

Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–).  The Columbia Guide to Standard American English.  1993. if (when) worse (worst) come(s) to worst


  
Clive  #442695  Wed, 14 Nov 07 11:03 PM

Hi guys,

I always say 'if worst come to worst'.

I use the subjunctive because I view the event as an unlikely possibility. If I don't view it that way, I don't use this expression at all.

I say worst/worst because all my thoughts are focused on 'what is the worst thing that may happen'. I'm not thinking about two eventualities, ie I'm not thinking 'what thing is worse than this thing but is not the worst thing?' and 'what is the worst thing?' 

Clive

  
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Anonymous  #488960  Fri, 14 Mar 08 06:28 PM

I consider that the best form is "If worse comes to worst" because it is the most logical.  Supposedly, if things are already worst, they can't get any worse from there.  (Las Lomas High School English teacher, Walnut Creek, CA) 

  
Goodman  #488990  Fri, 14 Mar 08 09:06 PM
Supposedly, if things are already worst, they can't get any worse from there.  (Las Lomas High School English teacher, Walnut Creek, CA) 

Don't be so sure. if you think it can't get any worse, how about a few miles furhter at Clayton High! (li) Lightning(;)) Wink
  
Yoong Liat  #489274  Sat, 15 Mar 08 05:10 PM

Hi New2grammar

I hope the following will help you decide what you should say/write.

if the worst comes to the worst

if the worst possible thing happens
Example: If the worst comes to the worst you can sell your house. 
 if the worst comes to the worst (British, American & Australian, American) something that you say in order to tell someone what you will do if a situation becomes very difficult or serious. If the worst comes to the worst, we'll have to give them our bed and sleep on the floor. If worst came to worst, could we sell the car to raise some extra cash?  
References in classic literature
And if the worst comes to the worst, there is always that story of my First Love wherewith to fill the time. The Quest of the Golden Girl by le Gallienne, Richard View in contextI want her to know that if the worst comes to the worst she can count on me. Moon and Sixpence by Maugham, W. Somerset View in contextIf the worst comes to the worst, well worth thinking of
  
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