Would never have or would have never?

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Bamboo

#262996 Tue, 05 Sep 06 04:58 PM

please help me on this word order issue. i am not sure which is grammatically correct.

I would never have done

I would have never done

thanks in advance,

bamboo Angel [A]

Bamboo

Joined on Wed, Aug 24 2005

Tokyo

New Member (12)

Word Order

Philip

#262998 Tue, 05 Sep 06 05:03 PM

Bamboo wrote:

please help me on this word order issue. i am not sure which is grammatically correct.

I would never have done

or

I would have never done

thanks in advance,

bamboo

Without context, it is a toss-up, a matter of choice. My personal preference is to put "never" after "I". Either of your choices is fine, but I think the second may be more common, as "would've" is heard quite often, but not seen in serious writing.

Philip

Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005

USA Pacific Northwest (Seattle)

Veteran Member (6,333)

At reise er at leve! - H. C. Andersen

Word Order

Marius Hancu

#263018 Tue, 05 Sep 06 05:41 PM

Both correct.

At the New York Times:
[link]

Search with
"I would have never"
(quotation signs are important)
172 Results

"I would never have"
716 Results

Marius Hancu

Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006

Montreal, Canada

Veteran Member (11,673)

CalifJim

#263089 Tue, 05 Sep 06 08:52 PM

I X2 would X1 have X3 done ...

Placement of never at X1 is most common by far; at X2, next most common; at X3, least common.

All are grammatically correct.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,777)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Marius Hancu

#263094 Tue, 05 Sep 06 09:05 PM

This is what Swan says too: he gives the preferred word order (never after the modal/would), and several others as possible.

Marius Hancu

Word Order, Modals

Grammar Geek

#263127 Tue, 05 Sep 06 11:24 PM

Does anyone else think that there's a difference in placement based on whether or not you actually DID do it? Or at least, an implication of that? You can make sentences that mean each of the following using a different word order and vocal emphasis, but this is my first interpretation:

I never would have: If I had known you were returning from your trip on Thursday, I never would have agreed to have dinner with Marge on Friday. (But I did agree to do so.)

I would never have: You thought I was having dinner with her? I would never have agreed to have dinner with Marge! (I didn't and I wouldn't.)

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (16,094)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Word Order

CalifJim

#263151 Wed, 06 Sep 06 01:35 AM

Grammar Geek,

My brain isn't getting the same reaction as you get from trying over those sentences, but I still think you may have something there. I just can't seem to focus in on what it is! Smile [:)]

One of these days it'll hit me -- an "Aha!" moment -- but nothing so far. Sad [:(]

CalifJim

Grammar

Marius Hancu

#263174 Wed, 06 Sep 06 02:51 AM

Grammar Geek,

Perhaps because you're making a connection between:

would not have
wouldn't have
would never have

by seeing them as negatives because of that n, present in all of them?

Marius Hancu

Grammar, Negatives

Grammar Geek

#263187 Wed, 06 Sep 06 03:52 AM

Eh, it was just a thought.

I ____ would _____ have ______ done that if I had known... (because I did, but wouldn't have otherwise) - where would you drop in the never? To me (and I admit, I'm not the most normal person around), it's either the first or the third, but for this purpose, not the second.

Grammar Geek