Would've never

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Kooyeen

#444583 Tue, 20 Nov 07 09:44 PM

Hi,
there's another post about this, but it's and old one and incomplete. So I wanted to know more about the position of "never" in sentrences like these:

1) If you hadn't told me, I would never have found out.
2) If you hadn't told me, I would have never found out.
Etc.

1) What? I didn't steal it! I would never have stolen her wallet!
2) What? I didn't steal it! I would have never stolen her wallet!
Etc.

I was told it was ok in both positions, and postion #1 was the most common. However...
...I always tend to say version #2, because "would've never" sounds better than "would never've" to me.
I'd like to know more about this, whether a version is probably more common than another, if there are differences in meaning, etc. (and info about contractions included = how to say them in everyday English)

Thanks in advance Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005

Italy

Senior Member (3,964)

If you don't have a sense of humor already, it's about time you buy one.

Contractions

Goodman

#444599 Tue, 20 Nov 07 10:53 PM

Kooyeen,

If my comment meant anything , or for whatever it is worth, this is what I understand:

These 2 sentences are type 3 Conditional (past perfect conditional) . It doesn’t matter where “never” is placed, meaning is the same. You will find # 1 more commonly used.

1) If you hadn't told me, I would never have found out.
2) If you hadn't told me, I would have never found out.
Etc.

1) What? I didn't steal it! I would never have stolen her wallet!
2) What? I didn't steal it! I would have never stolen her wallet!

This is the exception to the rules since “if” is not involved in the sentence structure. This exception allows mixed tenses to be correctly and grammatically used.

Goodman

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005

Calif. USA

Senior Member (3,173)

The name says it all!

Conditionals, Past perfect, Sentence structures, Tenses

CalifJim

#444634 Wed, 21 Nov 07 01:35 AM

"would've never" sounds better than "would never've" to me.

You may find it lonely being among the few people who hold this opinion! Smile [:)]

I always tend to say version #2

Well, get over it! Smile [:)]

There's no difference in meaning; you already have my opinion above on what I recommend!

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,931)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Kooyeen

#444912 Wed, 21 Nov 07 08:08 PM

Thanks!
So, if I got it right, you are suggesting "would never've", but also saying that "would've never" is ok too and there's no difference in meaning. Right?
And that's interesting... it seems every native speaker has their own opinion on this! In the old incomplete thread, GG said she didn't use both versions interchangeably, because she felt there was a difference in meaning. And I asked another native speaker, and I was told both versions are the same, but they preferred "would've never".
Well, it's not a problem if everyone speaks their own way... as long as I am aware of it and I understand. Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

CalifJim

#444957 Wed, 21 Nov 07 11:03 PM

So, if I got it right, you are suggesting "would never've", but also saying that "would've never" is ok too and there's no difference in meaning. Right? Yup. Although would've never probably makes the word never stick out more. I see that as a difference in emphasis, not a difference in meaning. I'd say that unless you really want to stress never, there's no point in using would've never.
And that's interesting... it seems every native speaker has their own opinion on this! and not just on this! In the old incomplete thread, GG said she didn't use both versions interchangeably, because she felt there was a difference in meaning. Well, she's wrong! Smile [:)]

[And I realize that she'll say that I'm wrong! LOL. Smile [:)]

] And I asked another native speaker, and I was told both versions are the same, but they preferred "would've never". Tsk, tsk, tsk. The poor misguided thing.
Well, it's not a problem if everyone speaks their own way... true ... as long as I am aware of it and I understand. Good point.

CJ

CalifJim

Kooyeen

#445232 Thu, 22 Nov 07 06:20 PM

CalifJim wrote:
Well, she's wrong!

Shhh! She might hear you! Wink [;)]

Well, she just said she used "never" in a different way, I don't think it's a question of being wrong... just perference. But as I said, the thread was incomplete, so I really don't know... She might feel like adding something if she notices this thread, though.

And thanks! I understand. Smile [:)]

Kooyeen