Written english vs spoken english

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Huevos  #553373  Sun, 10 Aug 08 10:56 PM
Yankee
"The president has been shot!"
Yankee, that's passive. The difference between the simple past and the present perfect is just a slight "Sss" sound. "somebody shot the president" versus "somebody's shot the president".
  
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YSchneider  #553375  Sun, 10 Aug 08 10:59 PM

So you're saying that usally to give some news you(an american) wouldn't use the present perfect, right?

  
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Yankee  #553402  Mon, 11 Aug 08 12:55 AM
Hi Yves

You'll find both tenses in written news.

I suppose in my example about the president, the person's mindset might be that 1) the shooting is obviously finished, and 2) there is an expectation that the details about when, where, how, etc will be gone into, so the importance of 'when' is already there.



  
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Yankee  #553405  Mon, 11 Aug 08 01:20 AM
Huevos
The difference between the simple past and the present perfect is just a slight "Sss" sound. "somebody shot the president" versus "somebody's shot the president".
Hi Huevos
If you are a native speaker, then I'm sure you also realize that a native speaker will understand whether that 'sss' sound is there or not. In other words, a native speaker knows whether someone is saying somebody's or somebody. What I'm saying is that in the scenario I gave, I think it is far more likely that an American will use the simple past tense.  There won't even be a slight hint of a 'sss' sound connected to the end of the word 'somebody' -- because it just won't be there.

As regards "I ate already", Americans commonly use the words already, yet, and just (for example) with the simple past tense -- especially in spoken English:

- Did you see that movie yet?
- I just saw that movie.
- I already saw that movie./I saw that movie already.

Naturally, we use already, yet, and just with the present perfect as well.
  
YSchneider  #553451  Mon, 11 Aug 08 06:13 AM
Hi Yankee or any other Americans!

I just wonder if it's in the end not a difference between written and spoken enlish. Because if been told that if you call your mom after an exam it's far more likely to tell her: I passed the exam then I've passed the exam(at least in the States)

So is the usage of the present perfect as mentioned at the beginning just a way to start a letter or an e-mail?

  
Huevos  #553459  Mon, 11 Aug 08 06:57 AM
Yankee
In other words, a native speaker knows whether someone is saying somebody's or somebody. What I'm saying is that in the scenario I gave, I think it is far more likely that an American will use the simple past tense.  There won't even be a slight hint of a 'sss' sound connected to the end of the word 'somebody'
I think non-natives make too much of a big deal of this. If I were to say to you "Somebody's shot the president"or you were to say to me "Somebody shot the president" it is very unlikely either of us would conciously register it or find it unnatural, and certainly neither would look upon it as an error.What do you think?
  
YSchneider  #553461  Mon, 11 Aug 08 07:10 AM
Certainly you're right that it might doesn't matter that much in the end, but still there seem to be some clear preferences! I'd just like to know what's common in the US! Can some other American native tell me his opinion on the mentioned examples?
  
Yankee  #553608  Mon, 11 Aug 08 06:07 PM

Huevos
If I were to say to you "Somebody's shot the president"or you were to say to me "Somebody shot the president" it is very unlikely either of us would conciously register it or find it unnatural
That's just it, Huevos -- I think "Somebody's shot the president" would register immediately as different or atypical or possibly even "wrong".  That is precisely the reason I gave that example.   I would be willing to bet that there would be more than just a few (non-English-teacher) Americans who, if asked directly, would actually go so far as to claim that "Somebody's shot the president!" is wrong. 

Yes, there are by far many more similarities than differences between BE and AmE.  Nevertheless, the differences are there.
  
CalifJim  #553675  Mon, 11 Aug 08 08:59 PM
Huevos
I think non-natives make too much of a big deal of this.
I have to agree.  And I don't think the differences have anything whatsoever to do with "written vs. spoken".  Zero, zero, zero.

It would take a very astute American listener indeed to notice anything 'amiss' in a British speaker's use of the present perfect in any given situation.  I'd bet that no American listener would ever say to himself, "How interesting.  I would have used the simple past there." 

The other way around is a different question.  The British, I'm told, find that combinations like "already did" create at least a minor disturbance in their brain waves!  Smile

CJ 

  
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