ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Tense

Murof — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:46:12 GMT

Hi,CJ and Clive

Thanks for your explanations! It's very clear to me now. I think it means that "until the point-twenty years from 1890, the boast had already been a reality."

Re: Tense

CalifJim — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:40:37 GMT

Yes, if the boast was made by Los Angeles! (Even though Los Angeles is not animate, we can still think of it as capable of boasting. "its" then means "of the people of Los Angeles".) And in that case, "its" might even be preferable.
However, if someone else made the boast -- and that was how I interpreted the sentence originally -- then "its" would not be a good choice. It was not clear to me from the original sentence that L.A. or its citizens had made the boast.

CJ

Re: Tense

rishonly — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:15:33 GMT

CalifJim,

Can I write 'Los Angeles had made its..." instead of 'Los Angeles had made their.."?

Re: Tense

CalifJim — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:31:18 GMT

Hi Clive,

Yes, I can see it that way, too. But in that case I want to leave out the "twenty years" phrase and substitute something else.

"..., yet a powerful municipal will eventually made the boast a reality".

For me, the "twenty years" phrase exerts a strong feeling that we need "had made". Is it the suggestion of having worked for twenty years that leads us there? Leads us to prefer the perfect? Hmmm. On the other hand, maybe that's not what your instinct is telling you. Just thought I'd mention it.

CJ

Re: Tense

Clive — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:20:51 GMT

Hi,

I'd just like to add a further comment.

San Francisco of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared Los Angels a world city, yet within twenty years a powerful minicipal will had made this boast a reality.

Yes, 'had made' is fine, and reflects the situation in 1910. However, simply 'made' is also possible. That would just reflect that you were thinking 'the city did it quickly, in just a few years'.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Tense

CalifJim — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:56:48 GMT

If you said it from the viewpoint of today, you'd say something like

"Within the last twenty years, Los Angeles has made their boast a reality."

So from the point of view of 1910, you'd change "has" to "had" and say something like

"Within the twenty years ending in 1910, Los Angeles had made their boast a reality."

CJ

Tense

Murof — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:36:56 GMT

I've met a sentence but I don't know why I cann't use "made" instead of "had made"?

San Francisco of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared Los Angels a world city, yet within twenty years a powerful minicipal will had made this boast a reality.