ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Wife and I's

Kooyeen — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:34:26 GMT

Thank you.

Grammar Geek wrote:

1) Tom and Mary's car - Tom and Mary have one car, which they own jointly. Yeah, I see.
2) Tom's and Mary's car - Same as above, but the 's after Tom isn't really needed. Can't it also mean "Tom's car and Mary's car", which is the same as #4? Isn't it also used that way?
3) Tom and Mary's cars - Tom and Mary jointly have more than one car. Yeah, I see.
4) Tom's and Mary's cars - Tom and Mary each have their own car or their own cars, I guess.

Thanks

Re: Wife and I's

Grammar Geek — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:33:24 GMT

Tom and Mary's car - Tom and Mary have one car, which they own jointly.
Tom's and Mary's car - Same as above, but the 's after Tom isn't really needed
Tom and Mary's cars - Tom and Mary jointly have more than one car
Tom's and Mary's cars - Tom and Mary each have their own car

Re: Wife and I's

Kooyeen — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:26:23 GMT

Grammar Geek wrote:

Hi Anonymous,

Thanks for making a contribution, but please do look for threads that are more current. When someone hasn't responded in almost two years, probably the original poster is no longer looking at the thread.

Yeah, but this thread is no use at all. Could anyone tell me what I'm supposed to learn from this thread? That nobody knows how to say the simplest thing on earth? Oh well, ok, it seems it's not so simple after all...
After reading this thread some time ago, I opened another one about the same problem... it seems there's no real answer to these kinds of questions, and the best to say similar sentences are:

My wife's and my house (which is the same house)
My house and hers (which is the same house)
Our house, mine and my wife's. (best option by far)

This was my old thread:
http://www.englishforums.com/English/BillsAndMyDog/djmbm/Post.htm

Another thing I've never understood is what the real difference is, if there is a real one and not an invented one, between:

Tom and Mary's car
Tom's and Mary's car
Tom and Mary's cars
Tom's and Mary's cars

Re: Wife and I's

Grammar Geek — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:29:34 GMT

Hi Anonymous,

Thanks for making a contribution, but please do look for threads that are more current. When someone hasn't responded in almost two years, probably the original poster is no longer looking at the thread.

(And by the way, I disagree with your plain and simply way. Your wife's name on the check has its own initial and needs it's own possessive, even if it's the same letter.)

Re: Wife and I's

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:18:05 GMT

Plain and simple, the correct way to word that sentence would be "Can you get rid of my wife and my middle initials from the checks?"

Because wouldn't you say " "Can you get rid of my middle initial from the checks?" (Well, actually, you should ask to have the initials removed, not gotten "rid" of, but that's a different subject.)

Re: Wife and I's

Beemer — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:05:01 GMT

Anon, whatever else is decided or not decided, the last time I checked, 'I' was not a possessive pronoun. Would one ask 'Can you get rid of I middle initial?' Or would it be better to say 'my'.? And, possessive pronouns don't have apostrophes attached.

God forbid that the context should read, 'Hello Mr Brown, this is Mr Charles P P Drummond. Terribly sorry to bother you with this rather odd request, but can you get rid of my wife and my middle initials from the checks? They're really starting to annoy me.'

Re: Wife and I's

MrPedantic — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:44:56 GMT

That's how I like 'em.

Re: Wife and I's

Clive — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:41:40 GMT

Hi,

Isn't a stray trollop a touch pleonastic?

Clive

Re: Wife and I's

MrPedantic — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:02:53 GMT

I suppose we can think of

1. Tom and Mary's car

2. (Tom and Mary)'s car

on the grounds that if we multiply both "Tom" and "Mary" by apostrophe-s, we find ourselves with one shared car and a couple of legitimate genitives:

3. Tom's + Mary's car

But with

4. ...my-wife-and-I's last name

we're but a thought away from

5. ...the last name of my-wife-and-I

which is the Bottomless Pit and the spawn of Belial.

(Has anyone seen a stray trollop, by the way? I seem to have mislaid mine.)

MrP

Re: Wife and I's

Clive — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:24:54 GMT

Hi,

I don't think the fact that each of the two people have their own middle initial makes a diference here.

Consider that Tom is the husband and Mary, the wife.

If they had one car, would we speak of Tom's and Mary's car or of Tom and Mary's car?

If they had two cars, would we speak of Tom's and Mary's cars or of Tom and Mary's cars?

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Wife and I's

Beemer — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:55:23 GMT

I'd say 'Can you get rid of my wife's and my middle initials from the checks.?' Politeness dictates that the other person is mentioned first, thus 'my wife's and my', but it's not essential. The long version of the sentence would read, 'Can you get rid of my wife's middle initial and my middle initial from the checks?' In the interest of brevity, we drop the redundant 'middle initial'.

Re: Wife and I's

davkett — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:23:20 GMT

Guaranteed safe, at least, CJ:

Re: Wife and I's

CalifJim — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:04:23 GMT

But how do you hyphenate over the telephone?

And more to the point, are we sure it's legal?

Re: Wife and I's

davkett — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:37:16 GMT

Yeh. I was thinking (sort of jokingly) of some hyphens (to acknowledge the collective unit in the familiar phrase [for men, at least]).

"Can you get rid of I-and-my-wife's middle initials from the checks?"

But how do you hyphenate over the telephone?

Re: Wife and I's

Clive — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:12:25 GMT

Hi guys,

"Can you get rid of my wife and I's middle initials from the checks?"

It seems to me that part of what is going on here is that the two people are being treated as a unit. It's a similar thought to when we say my wife and I's last name. The thought is that the couple possess everything in common, including their middle initials. Marital bliss!

Best wishes, Clive