ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: gerund? participle? adverb?

Johnlox — Wed, 24 May 2006 17:45:07 GMT

Could it be that the verb 'to spend' requires the infinitive of the following verb?

Example:

I spend time to study French.

If this is the case, then like many infinitives in English, it seems to be acceptable to replace it with it's gerund form.

Example:

I spend time studying French.

Just my humble two cents

John

Re: gerund? participle? adverb?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2006 17:40:47 GMT

Could it be that the verb 'to spend' requires the infinitive of the following verb?

Example:

I spend time to study French.

If this is the case, then like many infinitives in English, it seems to be acceptable to replace the it with it's gerund form.

Example:

I spend time studying French.

Just my humble two cents

John

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

paco2004 — Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:59:12 GMT

MrPedantic wrote:
1. The time spent working at home...
Curious.

"That same research showed that Internet access fosters working at home. A notable number of users said their use of the Internet increases the amount of time they spend working at home â 14% said the time working at home has increased because of their Internet use and 5% said the time working at home has decreased. Internet veterans were more likely to say the Internet increases time working at home." Pew Internet & American Life Project.

paco

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

MrPedantic — Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:38:31 GMT

Yes, #3 does dangle. This seems to be the missing link:

1. The time spent working at home...

Curious.

MrP

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

paco2004 — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:31:01 GMT

Hello

Please look at the three sentences below, which I picked up online.
      1. She spent the time in working at home
      2. She spent the time working at home.
      3. The time working at home is gradually increasing.
Sentence #1 was traditionally deemed as a grammatical form, but people nowadays prefer the sentence #2. Sentence #3 seems to have been created by some people who analyzed the cluster of "the time working at home" in #2 as a noun phrase. This would be a good example showing a progress in a language is brought about by people who are not well acquainted with the grammar of their mother tongue. I believe phrases like "a position teaching English" also were created in a similar way.

paco

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

MrPedantic — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:57:33 GMT

Very glad to meet you too, Goodman! I look forward to more of your posts.

As you say, we have many shades of opinion here, so with luck, another member will pass by and propose another view. (I'm by no means sure that my "analysis" is correct; it's a tricky question.)

See you later,

MrP

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

Goodman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:01:07 GMT

Thanks for your reply.

Thatâs what makes this forum different than the others I had visited.

I am a former ESL student and Iâd like to think I have passed that level;

but I am still trying to polish my English while sharing it

with others. Having said that, Itâs fair to say that one piece of editorial may

have varying opinions and critiques from different reader because

each of of us has a different writing style; not wrong but just a different approach.

I am the kind lthat earns from copying and observing from others rather than

memorizing the technical rule of the book. By the way, I am a Hong

Kong born Chinese

Glad to meet you all here !

Goodman

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

MrPedantic — Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:26:04 GMT

Hello Goodman

It looks a little different to me:

1. He spent years training...

2. He saved for years hoping...

In #2, we can put a comma after "saved", which suggests a participle that modifies the subject of the first clause; but in #1, we can't, which suggests an ing-form that modifies the action.

In your other examples, I'd say that you were right: participle and gerund.

MrP

Re: gerund? participle? adverb? - comments and questions

Goodman — Thu, 09 Feb 2006 01:44:18 GMT

I had a similar discussion with a teacher on line regarding this type of sentence structure sometime ago.

If I said âHe has saved for year hoping to start his own businessâ. Would you say this is a similar sentence structure as âHe spent years training himself to writeâ?

If you agree, then I believe âhopeâ and âtrainingâ are not used as gerunds but as present participle to describe the action.

If I ask the following questions, can you comment ?

The board of directors met for hours trying desperately to work out a budget, but still no decision. Present participle ?

Despite hours of trying, there is no decision/ Gerund ?

Re: gerund? participle? adverb?

MrPedantic — Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:33:47 GMT

I would say that the original structure was "to spend [time] on/in doing something". Here, the ING form is a gerund, e.g.

1. He spent years [on] training himself to write.

and the underlined phrase acts as a complement.

However, without the preposition, the gerund seems to take on something of the character of a participle, as if it were really:

2. He spent years, training himself to write.

This seems illusory, though, as you don't say simply "he spent years": the phrase needs its complement.

(But I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree.)

MrP

Re: gerund? participle? adverb?

paco2004 — Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:32:21 GMT

Your question is tough to answer.

[1] "He spent years training himself to write". Formerly this was not accepted as formal English. In those days most of pedagogic people though and even now some of them think that it should be: [2] "He spent years in training himself to write". So, historically speaking, "training himself to write" is a gerundive phrase. But now we could take it as an adverbial phrase using a present participle "training". That is, #1 could be interpreted as [3] "He spent years (while) training himself to write"

paco

gerund? participle? adverb?

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 20:28:26 GMT

A question for master grammarians:

How would you identify the word "training" in the following sentence?

He spent years training himself to write.

Help if you can!