http://www.englishforums.com/English/EslGeneralEnglishGrammar-Questions/Forum12.htmAsk your questions on grammar and get your sentence checked. We answer lots of different types of general English grammar questions here. <font color=red>DO NOT post paragraphs and compositions here. Post them in our <a href="http://www.englishforums.com/English/EssayReportCompositionWriting/Forum9.htm"><b>Essay, Report and Composition Writing Forum</b></a>.</font>enXMOD (Build: 3614.32638)http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228289Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:28:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:228289Grammar Geek0http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228289http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-228289.xmlBeliever wrote: The book was very good. The part in brackets (???) are not JUST additional information but essential information that gives restrictive meaning to the sentence. Which book? the book you told me to read and thus, should not set off aside as an element (piece) of additional information. That wasn't how I intended it - hence the "by the way." Did you see the movie Ella Enchanted ? It was just terrible! But the book, which you told me to read, was very good. The "which you told me to read" is unnecessary for the sentence to work. It's just additional information that you can lift entirely out of the sentence. If I wanted "the book recommended by you " to answer the question "which book?" then I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228181Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:28:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:228181Believer1http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228181http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-228181.xmlThank you. I am not so sure that this is what CalifJim was trying to get at but with all due respect, let me gingerly ask you this question? The sentence of yours, The book was very good. The part in brackets (???) are not JUST additional information but essential information that gives restrictive meaning to the sentence. Which book? the book you told me to read and thus, should not set off aside as an element (piece) of additional information. And I am so sure the usage of "that" or "which" is what set the distinction of being restrictive and non-restrictive apart. I think the nature of the phrase/clause that follows is what trully determines the choice.http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228128Sun, 24 May 2009 05:28:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:228128Grammar Geek2http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/2/cmgbw/Post.htm#228128http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-228128.xmlCalifJim wrote: That is restrictive and and tells the reader which one you mean. ... Which provides additional information and the clause is set off by commas. So it is your contention that which is always non-restrictive and always requires the commas associated with non-restrictive clauses? CJ No, I'm sure there are examples of non-restrictive uses that don't require the commas. But as you know, if it's a "parenthetical comment," it can removed entirely from the sentence, and I would argue that if you can do that, then you DO need commas on either end of the "which phrase." But I know you have a lot more linguistic training than I do, so I'm willing to bet that you have a lot more examples. And like I said also, I'm...http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#228003Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:228003Anonymous3http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#228003http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-228003.xmlRichard Side and Guy Wellman in Grammar and Vocabulary for CAE and CPE. There is a task which requires you to use one of the relative pronouns: who, whom, whose, that, which. They marked 'that' as the only alternative to fill the gap in the sentence in question. Inchoatehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227990Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227990CalifJim4http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227990http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227990.xmlall 'that' you want you can have. why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which' All which you want you can have is grammatically correct. Who says it is not? As a matter of actual practice, which is no more than linguistic habit, we almost always prefer to say all that you want (or all you want ) instead of all which you want . This has nothing to do with the grammar of that and which and everything to do with speaker preferences. I suspect the same preference exists for that after all indefinite pronouns -- not just all . CJ See also the following posts. The last one cited contains a reference to the "dictatorial Yanqui machine" which is particularly amusing. ...http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227982Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227982CalifJim5http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227982http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227982.xmlThat is restrictive and and tells the reader which one you mean. ... Which provides additional information and the clause is set off by commas. So it is your contention that which is always non-restrictive and always requires the commas associated with non-restrictive clauses? CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227963Fri, 24 Apr 2009 05:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227963Grammar Geek6http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227963http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227963.xmlThis forum has covered the topic of THAT and WHICH in depth. That is restrictive and and tells the reader which one you mean. The book that you recommended, All the items that are on the table, the table that has the scratch on the leg, the house that has the pretty fountain. Which provides additional information and the clause is set off by commas. I've added to the additional information here. The book was very good. All the items are for sale. The table was only $50. They are not interchangeable. It may be moving in that direction and in another 20 years the distinction will be gone, but it's still there now.http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227874Sun, 24 May 2009 05:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227874Ant_2227http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227874http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227874.xmlAs I am concerned, &#171;that&#187; is used with a descriptive clause, while &#171;which&#187; — with an indicative one. &#171;I have a book _that_ was published 1941&#187; Here a property of the book is emphasized. &#171;Is &#171;The Elements of Thought&#187; that book about _which_ you told me?&#187; Here the book itself is in question.http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227836Sun, 24 May 2009 05:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227836Anonymous8http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227836http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227836.xml'all what,' is false thx anyway inchoatehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227813Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227813Kane19899http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227813http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227813.xmli would use there what instead of which all what you want you can havehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227807Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227807Philip10http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htm#227807http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227807.xmlAnonymous wrote: all 'that' you want you can have. why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which' as far as i know, when we refer to things they are interchangeable. please! incho Someone may come up with a source that differs from my point of view, but to me they are interchangeable. I would use "that" in this case, but I cannot give you a good reason for that preference. I think that I might use "which" to be more emphatic. "The book that I read last week was really interesting" ----- "The book which I told you to read was very interesting" (but you didn't read it - and it might even be set off by commas in written form to indicate the possible admonition. Just to add to the confusion, you can...http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htmTue, 24 Mar 2009 06:28:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:227757Anonymous11http://www.englishforums.com/English/RelativePronouns/cmgbw/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-227757.xmlall 'that' you want you can have. why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which' as far as i know, when we refer to things they are interchangeable. please! incho