ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Grammar Geek — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 03:48:19 GMT

You can pray for God to DO something. Every night, I pray for God to keep my family safe, for example.

You can can also pray for someone else when you mean that your prayers are for the benefit of this person/these people. You can pray for a friend who is sick, for example, for for the world's poor,

But not just "You can pray for God" all by itself - unless you think God needs praying for.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Rex — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:39:22 GMT

I presume it would be fine to say both of the following:

1. You can pray to God.
2. You can pray for God.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Grodada — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:05:37 GMT

One possible explanation to the presence of the determiner THE may be that "the Virgin Mary" is in fact an elliptic form of "the virgin called Mary" (or even "the virgin who is called Mary").
If we accept the idea of an ellipsis, the term "virgin" is thus a substantive in the context and that substantive is modified by the following relative clause, which explains the presence of the determiner THE.
I am not a native speaker so could someone tell me if the hypothetical original form ("the virgin who is called Mary") seems plausible ?

Thanks

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Grammar Geek — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:38:27 GMT

No, you were right the first time - you pray to God.

But you pray to THE God of all creation, or THE God of our fathers. When you add a description, you use "the."

You should pray to Mary... you should pray to the Virgin Mary.

(Grammatically speaking. I don't mean to tell you whom to really pray to.)

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Tidus — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:38:19 GMT

No. Pray to God is correct. Pray for the God is incorrect.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Rex — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:31:18 GMT

I assume "the mum" means the Virgin Mary? Yes.

So to say pray to God is incorrect.
It should be pray for God.
Is it the idiom?

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Tidus — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:25:34 GMT

Rex wrote:

We don't say they pray for the God. It is pray for God.

We don't say they pray to the God. It is pray to God.

Rex wrote:

God doesn't like the article whereas the mum likes the article.

I assume "the mum" means the Virgin Mary?

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Rex — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:12:14 GMT

I'm the 'only' Tidus on this board.

Mary is the 'Virgin' Mary

Tidus, I would agree with the above.
By the same token, I am the only Rex on this forum and he is the only pieanne on this forum.

We don't say they pray for the God. It is pray for God.
God doesn't like the article whereas the mum likes the article.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Tidus — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:42:08 GMT

Rex wrote:
Tidus
Thanks for the reply.
I can't fathom your reply.

You are Tidus or Mr. Tidus.
You are not the Tidus or the Mr.Tidus.

I'm the 'only' Tidus on this board.

Mary is the 'Virgin' Mary

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

pieanne — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:23:18 GMT

I guess it is, because I suppose quite a few Mary(s) are still virgins...

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

NewPhilologist — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:17:57 GMT

You're Rex. Imagine there are two persons called Rex. You are green and the other one is yellow.

Thus you are "the green Rex"

On a sidenote, I believe that "the Virgin Mary" is simply the idiomatic way to refer to her in English. It is in Dutch, at least.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Rex — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:03:17 GMT

Tidus
Thanks for the reply.
I can't fathom your reply.

You are Tidus or Mr. Tidus.
You are not the Tidus or the Mr.Tidus.

Re: The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Tidus — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:35:19 GMT

Her name is Mary, not Virgin Mary. "Virgin" describes her, so "The Virgin Mary" is correct.

The Virgin Mary or Virgin Mary

Rex — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:11:33 GMT

Pope Benedict XVI is due to focus on Christian issues on the second day of his landmark visit to Turkey.

The Pope is visiting the ancient city of Ephesus in western Turkey, where a shrine marks what is said to be the final resting place of the Virgin Mary.

He is then due to meet the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in Istanbul, aiming to heal an old rift between Churches.

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We don't use the article before names. For example, to say, people know the Tony Blair is the Prime Miniser of Britain is incorrect.

It should be ' People know Tony Blair is the Prime Minister of Britain'.

In the above article, you will read words 'the Virgin Mary. Is it correct?
Shouldn't it be Virgin Mary ?