ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: a large number has / have

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:07:09 GMT

a large number of invitations has

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:50:57 GMT

CalifJim wrote:
Strange, perhaps, but:

a number of Xs is plural.
the number of Xs is singular.

CJ

IK: "A number of invitations has -- grammatical concord"

CJ: "this is not a true case of grammatical vs. notional concord, because we'd have to say here that the 'ungrammatical' version is always the correct one, which is somewhat of a paradox. "

false notion, I am affraid

SLIGHTLY FORMAL A large number of invitations has been sent.
A small number of children are educated at home

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=54475&dict=CALD

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:40:03 GMT

A number of invitations have been sent.

Which is the subject here, CJ?

Re: a large number has / have

CalifJim — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:17:03 GMT

Given that "a number of" is equivalent to "several", I don't see how one can ever have "grammatical concord" with "a number of". This makes me suspicious that this is not a true case of grammatical vs. notional concord, because we'd have to say here that the 'ungrammatical' version is always the correct one, which is somewhat of a paradox.

CJ

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:15:06 GMT

A number of invitations have -- a number of -- have the notion of several
The number of invitations has -- the number -- have the notion of one number

A number of invitations has -- grammatical concord

A number of invitations have -- notional concord

The number of invitations has -- grammatical and notional concord

Re: a large number has / have

Selecter — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:44:24 GMT

A number of invitations have
The number of invitations has
(from "Advanced grammar in use" Cambridge University Press)

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:34:14 GMT

Yoong Liat wrote:

A large number of invitations has / have been sent.

Should 'has' or 'have' be used?

It depends on whether we want notional, or grammatical concord.

http://www.bartleby.com/68/28/4128.html

grammatical concord means number is singular, thus the verb has is singular

Re: a large number has / have

Ouc — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:36:57 GMT

Number. Like other collective nouns number may take either a singular or a plural verb. Unlike most of them, it admits of a simple and logical rule. When all that it is doing is forming part of a composite plural subject, it should have a plural verb, as in:

A large number of people are coming today.

But when it is standing on its own legs as the subject it should have a singular verb, as in:

The number of people coming today is large.

The following are accordingly unidiomatic:

There is a number of applications, some of which were made before yours.
There is a large number of outstanding orders.

The true subjects are not "a number" and "a large number" but "a-number-of-applications" and "a-large-number-of-outstanding orders".

Of the following examples the first has a singular verb that should be plural and the second a plural verb that should be singular.

There ~~was~~ also a number of conferences calling themselves peace conferences which had no real interest in peace.
The number of casualties in H.M.S. Amethyst ~~are~~ is thought to be about fifteen.

Those kind of things. The use of the plural these or those with the singular kind or so

FromTroubles With Number http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/gowerse/complete/chap904.htm

Re: a large number has / have

CalifJim — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:01:02 GMT

Strange, perhaps, but:

a number of Xs is plural.
the number of Xs is singular.

CJ

Re: a large number has / have

Yoong Liat — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:42:09 GMT

Inchoateknowledge wrote:
Yong,

Slightly formal means it is slightly more frequent that this construction appears in formal speech than in informal one.
Why did you think it is more like informal to say number has

I had the impression that 'formal' is more correct, while 'informal' means that it is used more in conversation than in written form. So, since, strictly speaking, it should be "A number of invitations have been sent out", the version with 'has' should be informal.

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:20:02 GMT

Yong,

Slightly formal means it is slightly more frequent that this construction appears in formal speech than in informal one.
Why did you think it is more like informal to say number has

Re: a large number has / have

Yoong Liat — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:07:25 GMT

Hi Ann

"SLIGHTLY FORMAL: A large number of invitations has been sent." What I don't understand is it should be "A large number of invitations have been sent" and yet 'has' is used in the sentence quoted by you. Furthermore, it is SLIGHTLY FORMAL. What does 'slightly formal' mean? I thought that it should be be 'slightly informal' instead.

Re: a large number has / have

Annvan — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:35:42 GMT

After "a number of..." we normally use a plural verb, e.g.
- "A number of questions were asked." (Unit 79 'Oxford Practice Grammar')
- "A number of us are worried about it." (Page 61 Swan's 'How English Works')

That site(*) you mentioned, Inchoateknowledge, in another posting gives an example of how a singular verb can be used in a more formal setting:

"SLIGHTLY FORMAL: A large number of invitations has been sent."

(*)http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=54475&dict=CALD

Re: a large number has / have

Inchoateknowledge — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:55:38 GMT

Which, do you think, is the subject in this sentence, Yong?
I am asking because the verb has to be in singular/plural concord with it.

A large number of invitations has / have been sent

It is number and not numbers -- singular accord -- number has

a large number has / have

Yoong Liat — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:15:35 GMT

A large number of invitations has / have been sent.

Should 'has' or 'have' be used?