ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Grammar Geek — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:37:01 GMT

I have now deleted a couple anonymous posts, the sole purpose of which seemed to be to attack someone who made an error. This issue has been resolved and I am locking the thread.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:07:27 GMT

1, Capitol Hill Blue: Bush's troubles mount as Republican defections ...

Bush's troubles mount as Republican defections increase By DOUG THOMPSON Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue Nov 17, 2005, 08:15, Email this article

2. Will Britney Spears' Recent Troubles Cost Her? - Associated Content

Check out Will Britney Spears' Recent Troubles Cost Her? - Submitted by Lisa Ann at Associated Content.
www.associatedcontent.com/article/164925/will_britney_spears_recent_troubles.html

'Bush's troubles' and 'Britney Spears' Recent Troubles' refers to thier problems and so is correct usage.

troubles = problems

He is in troubles with the laws = He is in problems with the laws.

I think therefore 'He is in troubles with the laws' is wrong sentence.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yankee — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:18:09 GMT

Hi Goodman

You often make some very good and legitimate points, but your decision to post that "he is in troubles again with the laws" sentence was an extremely unfortunate one. The websites you posted prove rather than disprove that. Did you notice that one of the guys who used the expression "is in trouble with" also said this: "The only man who need to be Critize is..." If you look more closely at the Google results for a particular usage, you should be able to weed out most of the ones in which people have simply made errors.

I agree that the word trouble is also used as a plural -- but not the way you tried to illustrate it in that one particular sentence.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yoong Liat — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:20:26 GMT

Hi Goodman

I thought Amy's response to your 'in troubles' sentence would put an end to the whole discussion, but you still insist that you're right. I don't understand you. I don't pick on you, but any posters who, I believe, have posted the wrong answers will be queried by me and most of them either didn't bother to reply to my query, or admit that they had made a mistake.

I'm sure that I'm correct because I back up my belief with dictionaries and authoritative websites. However, you prefer to google for incorrect sentences and seem so proud to show them to me and, in so doing, mislead members who are weak in English.

If you use Google to "prove" that your sentence is acceptable, which Amy has already said is completely unnatural, I would like to let you know that if you google for 'unviersity' (the wrong spelling for 'university') you will get many hits.Does that mean that 'university' can be spelt 'unviersity'?

I would like the discussion to end here. I would also like to assure you that I'm not picking on you. I agree with you when your answers are, to me, correct. Remember recently when I agreed with your explanation to another member, I said, "I agee with what Goodman wrote."

Best wishes.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Goodman — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:15:12 GMT

Hi Amy,

Finally you have spoken. Please allow me to say this. I am by no mean saying âtroubleâ is wrong, and I agree it may be the most common in that usage. Rather, I am saying âtroublesâ is not exactly as wrong as Liat believes. This is the main point of the duscssion gone bad. I have been saying, depending on the context, both are possible. If you see it differently, I respect you opinion but I may not have to agree. We have been arguing over something so ridiculously insignificant in my opinion that I wish not to spend any more time on this topic. If my tone of voice sounded stubborn, maybe I am. Not idiomatic! Perhaps, but wrong! debatably not. But thanks for your "adamant' advice".

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Goodman — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:10:24 GMT

Liat,

many posters have posted questionable answers from time to time, how come you donât react to them with the same antagonistic attitude as you do me? Is it because of the fact that I always put myself in this âthe more I talk, the more I am prone to making mistakesâ predicament? Or, something about me that bothers you? There are few authorities among the members on this forum who in my view are fully credentialed to critique my English, I am sorry to break it to you, I have not found your mane yet! Moreover, even the Bible has variation in interpretation. Can you be so sure that all the dictionaries agree on the exact explanation? Now that you have posted my sentence on another website and successfully gotten responses from views from other parts of the world, I donât believe you have come any closer to finding a clear conclusion, or have you? I didnât think you were 100% sure about the answer, otherwise, you wouldnât go as far as posting the question on other site. Before I conclude, let me just give you a few more âsitesâ for your sore eyes.

He always wants Doraemon to get him whenever he is in troubles. shizuka.gif (2853 bytes) Shizuka is the only main girl character in the comic. ...
www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/6557/dinghistory.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

No man is the same when he is in troubles [730] and when he falls out of fear into courage. I am afraid that when the one who is going to take this tablet ...
www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0112&query=sp%3D%23158 - 30k - Cached - Similar pages Euripides, Iphigenia in Tauris (ed. Robert Potter)

He is in troubles for several narcotic law infractions, essentially for the production of seeds and clones and a suspicion of hash smuggling. ...
www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/Can-one-die-for-hemp-in.html - 43k Can one die for hemp in Switzerland of 2006 ? - Switzerland ...

in trouble/s with

He is in troubles again with the laws. Is the sentence correct? I believe it should be 'trouble' and 'law'. Many thanks. ...
www.able2know.org/forums/about105654.html - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

Amazon.com: Reviews for Something from the Nightside: Books: Simon ... And usually when he is in troubles, either Razor Eddie or Shotgun Suzie are there to help him out. Not that they are friends or something. ...
www.amazon.com/Something-Nightside-Simon-R-Green/dp/customer-reviews/0441010652 - 111k - Cached - Similar pages

Gurtong Discussion Board > Cdr. Edward Lino's Family Are In ... ... Sudan.net, Southsudan.net , Southsudanangels.com and many more otherwise he is in troubles, because most educated Audicences are always political active ...
www.gurtong.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t1408.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yoong Liat — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:44:26 GMT

Thanks, Amy, for finally participating in this discussion. If you hadn't joined in, some members might have learned the wrong things. I believe, and I think you believe too, that the members in this Forum, especially those who are weak in English, are learning from what is being posted. They will learn the wrong things if we allow non-standard English to be presented as correct or acceptable.

Best wishes

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yankee — Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:36:20 GMT

Goodman wrote:
Away from Google, âHe is in troubles again with the lawsâ is not a wrong sentence and I am saying this with conviction.

Sorry Goodman, but my very sincere and adamant advice to you is that you should say that with considerably less conviction.

A natural and correct version of your sentence would be this:
- He is in trouble again with the law.

Even more common would be this word order:
- He is in trouble with the law again.

I would be willing to accept that sentence with 'laws' as a possible, but much less common alternative.
However, 'be in troubles with' is not idiomatic in the least. It is completely unnatural.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yankee — Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:11:46 GMT

Onh1986 wrote:
Nobody answered to my question.

- If you (face/have) problems, call me.

Are both correct or neither?

Thanks

Hi Ohn
Yes, both of those would be OK, but I would prefer 'have'. It would also be common to add the word 'any':

- If you have any problems, call me.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yoong Liat — Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:49:57 GMT

Hi Goodman

All of the BBC
Search for: in troubles with the laws (Search all of the BBC)

Programmes - Politics Show - Midlands: Public shame

Politics Show interviewed other children in Kidsgrove who say they have never been in trouble with the law but feel penalised.
10 Mar 2005.

Your sentence "He is in troubles with the laws" doesn't match what I found on the above BBC website.

You wrote: "I donât need a dictionary to tell me that. I understand. Dictionary is your bible and I appreciate that."

No, Goodman, dictionaries, grammar and English usage books, and authoritative websites are my Bible. In Christianity, if you're not sure about something, you refer to the Bible, don't you? You cannot say "Let's not refer to the Bible. The Bible doesn't teach you everything."

You said that Jain doesn't post with supporting statements. Yet, when I painstakingly provided you with what I've found in my dictionary and the authoritative website, you say "I recite what my dictionary said, anyone can do that." If anyone can do that, why don't you quote from your dictionaries just as one of the Forum's members recently did. And it was a construction discussion, I would say.

You said "I am willing to listen to any convincing and constructive criticism." If quoting from dictionaries and authoritative websites is not constructive, then what is? Just bulldoze the way you're doing.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Goodman — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:54:14 GMT

Liat,

So far, you have kept dodging my questions; did you or did you not search under the heading I had suggested? And what have you found? Letâs hear it. If you want to publish finding on one side, you have to do that on the opposite side. You know as well as I do, there are plenty of usages found in main stream media. So for you to be so firm on telling me being wrong, I have this to say.

I hope I am reading wrong about you but I am beginning to raise doubt. Are you challenging me because I am not a native? True, I am not and I make mistakes from time to time; but if I didnât reveal my identity, you couldnât have never known, or could you? Away from Google, âHe is in troubles again with the lawsâ is not a wrong sentence and I am saying this with conviction. I donât need a dictionary to tell me that. I understand, dictionary is your bible and I appreciate that. To me itâs fine for oneâs own reference, not for an argument to prove his depth. If you think I am contradicting myself, feel free. I canât stop you. I am not here to make claims that my English is perfect. But I can honestly say, I have strived to come as close as possible over the years, and I am willing to listen to any convincing and constructive criticism. But If you just want to recite what your dictionary said, anyone can do that. Enough said, letâs just say, we agree to disagree. Perhaps, one of us is using substandard English.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yoong Liat — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:52:11 GMT

I agree with Kooyeen.

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Kooyeen — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:46:12 GMT

Hi,
I would say both are ok.
What is it that you think could be not acceptable?

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Penicillin — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:40:28 GMT

Nobody answered to my question.

- If you (face/have) problems, call me.

Are both correct or neither?

Thanks

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Yoong Liat — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:34:56 GMT

Hi Goodman

Recently you said that you follow traditional grammar rules, but now you say book's answers don't always explain everything. You're contradicting yourself, aren't you? If you don't rely on dictionaries and authoritative websites for answers, but just argue without any supporting statements as you claim Jain does, then what is the yardstick? If that is the case, anybody can say 'advices' is correct in the context of giving advice to somebody.

Why should I search for others, when the issue is 'run into trouble/troubles'? It doesn't make sense, does it?

ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

1, Capitol Hill Blue: Bush's troubles mount as Republican defections ...

2. Will Britney Spears' Recent Troubles Cost Her? - Associated Content

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

He is in troubles for several narcotic law infractions, essentially for the production of seeds and clones and a suspicion of hash smuggling. ...www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/Can-one-die-for-hemp-in.html - 43k Can one die for hemp in Switzerland of 2006 ? - Switzerland ...

in trouble/s with

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Programmes - Politics Show - Midlands: Public shame

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

Re: Which one is correct? (conditional clause)

He is in troubles for several narcotic law infractions, essentially for the production of seeds and clones and a suspicion of hash smuggling. ...
www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/Can-one-die-for-hemp-in.html - 43k Can one die for hemp in Switzerland of 2006 ? - Switzerland ...