ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Yoong Liat — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:00:28 GMT

It is about time you went to bed may appear wrong to some people, but it is correct.

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

CalifJim — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:17:31 GMT

difference between the two sentences of 'It is high time that I was in bed' and 'It is high time that I were in bed.'

You need ... was .... As far as I know, the expressions It is (high) time (that) do not take the subjunctive (I were) in modern English.

CJ

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Hoa Thai — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:49:34 GMT

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you all for your replying to my stupid question. I really appreciate it.

Hi Anon,

In contrary, I donât think your question is stupid. It brings up an issue that has stirred many good discussions in this forum and elsewhere. Here is an extracted text that represents one of the views regarding subjunctive mood - http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html:

âEnglish has had a subjunctive mood since Old English times, but most of the functions of the old subjunctive have been taken over by auxiliary verbs like may and should, and the subjunctive survives only in very limited situations. It has a present and past form. The present form is identical to the base form of the verb, so you only notice it in the third person singular, which has no final -s, and in the case of the verb be, which has the form be instead of am, is, and are.

We insist that he do the job properly.
Whether he be opposed to the plan or not, we must seek his opinion.

The past subjunctive is sometimes called the were subjunctive, since were is the only subjunctive form that is distinct from the indicative past tense.

If he were sorry, heâd have apologized by now.
Suppose she were to resign, what would you do then?

According to traditional rules, you use the subjunctive to describe an occurrence that you have presupposed to be contrary to fact: If I were ten years younger, I would consider entering the marathon. â¦ When the situation described by the if clause is not presupposed to be false, however, that clause must contain an indicative verb.... He would always call her from the office if he was (not were) going to be late for dinner.

Another traditional rule states that you are not supposed to use the subjunctive following verbs such as ask or wonder in if clauses that express indirect questions, even if the content of the question is presumed to be contrary to fact: We wondered if dinner was (not were) included in the room price. Some of the people we met even asked us if California was (not were) an island.

In practice, of course, many people ignore the rules. In fact, over the last 200 years even well-respected writers have tended to use the indicative was where the traditional rule would require the subjunctive were. A usage such as If I was the only boy in the world may break the rules, but it sounds perfectly natural.â

As you have seen, Amy showed us a graceful exit from being half right (or half wrong) by not using either was or were - a lesson for us to recognize the good English, which ârarely sparks the expressed or unexpressed reaction âThatâs not Good English,â either from those who really do know better or from those who merely think they do.â â Edward D. Johnson, The Handbook of Good English.

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:45:11 GMT

Thank you all for your replying to my stupid question. I really appreciate it.

I will also look this up on the Forums site for 'subjunctive' as soon as possible.

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Yankee — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:38:43 GMT

The second one (with 'were') doesn't just sound more formal to me, it sounds like something that would literally never be used.

I think a far more likely sentence would be this:
It's high time I went to bed.

In other words, after "it's high time (I)" the reference is usually to an action (e.g. go) rather than to a state (e.g. be).

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Doll — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:27:07 GMT

My try:

"It is high time I was in bed" and "it is high time I were" in bed are equivalent in meaning. The second one sounds more formal to me . If you want to learn which one is used commonly, I can say that "it is high time I was in bed" is used commonly.

Re: Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Avangi — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:15:42 GMT

Oh No! This is one of those subjunctive uses which can optionally be replaced with indicative mood. Do a search on the Forums site for "subjunctive." There's been a whole rash of it lately. (Should be would also fit your example.)

As you can see, subjunctive mood switches around some of the verb forms. The uses are several and can't really be covered in a single post.

A more familiar use would be, "If I were you, I'd get to bed." OR "If I was you, I'd get to bed."

Is there any difference of nuance between the two?

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:04:01 GMT

I wonder if there is a difference between the two sentences of 'It is high time that I was in bed' and 'It is high time that I were in bed.' Please let me know this in detail, will you?