ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Marius Hancu — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:44:44 GMT

I'm not sure you understood MrP's definitions for open/closed.

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:34:36 GMT

Hi Marius,

How could say MrP's comment is good when what he said is this?

#1 is open: it relates to a course of action that the speaker thinks desirable, at any time.

It looks like he is talking about a generic conditional sentence where no hypothical is involved.

Thank you.

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Marius Hancu — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:07:49 GMT

>1. It would be nicer, if you did X.

This is Present Unreal Conditional
http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/presentconditional.html#presentunreal

It would have been nicer, if you had done X.

This is Past Unreal Conditional
[url]http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/pastconditional.html#pastunreal/url]

MrP's comments still apply.

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Believer — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:59:41 GMT

Thank you, Marius, Yankee and CalifJim

Please tell why MrPedantic said what he said in this response post of his for a threat named 'Type 2 and type 3 of "If clause"' in regard to no. 1 sentence and does it exhibit any relevance to my line of inquiry.

MrPedantic wrote:

1. It would be nicer, if you did X.

2. It would have been nicer, if you had done X.

#1 is open: it relates to a course of action that the speaker thinks desirable, at any time.

#2 is closed: it relates to an imaginary course of action in the past, which the speaker thinks desirable, but which didn't in fact occur.

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Yankee — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:32:05 GMT

Hi Believer

Maybe making the wording more specific will also help you understand.

Let's say that the following sentences describe your habits factually (i.e. the sentences tell you what is "real"):

1. I play chess one hour a day.

2. I listen to pop music four hours a day.

If the sentences above are "real", then the following sentences are not "real" (i.e. they are not factual statements about your habits):

1a. I play chess two hours a day.

2a. I listen to pop music three hours a day.

Sentences 1a and 2a are simply two untrue statements. They are not yet part of a single conditional sentence.

An IF-sentence talks about a condition, and then states the result if the condition is met.

You can present sentence 2 as an "unreal" condition this way:

- "If I listened to pop music three hours a day, ..."

To finish your IF-sentence, you then say what the result of fulfilling the "unreal" condition would be:

- "... I would play chess two hours a day."

Your original sentence was simply less specific about the amounts of time spent on each activity, but the concept of "real" vs "unreal" is the same:

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

CalifJim — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:01:23 GMT

Believer
I would play chess more if I didn't listen to pop music so much.

Believer
For the kind of sentence above with the 'did' in the 'if' clause, I feel it looks to be a sentence that talks about what would happen if something did or did not happen with no sense of unreality.

Maybe you're idea of "unreality" is not the same as the idea of "unreality" used by people who explain the conditional structures!

The sentence doesn't say I play chess (more). It doesn't say I don't listen to pop music (so much). Maybe that's why the word "unreality" is used.

Re: Present Unreal Conditional

Marius Hancu — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:19:35 GMT

1. I would play chess more if I didn't listen to pop music so much. But I listen a lot ...

3. I would play chess more if I had more time. But I do not have more time

both are

Present Unreal Conditional, as per:

http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/presentconditional.html#presentunreal

where you find these examples corresponding respectively to each of the above:

I would read more if I didn't watch so much TV.

She would travel around the world if she had more money. But she doesn't have much money.

2. Yes, that's a mixed conditional, as per:

http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/mixedconditional.html

Present Unreal Conditional

Believer — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:10:02 GMT

Hi,

i have some questions on the subject of present unreal conditionals and hope you would be able to help me.

1. I would play chess more if I didn't listen to pop music so much.

If the sentence had the word 'had' in the 'if' clause, then I would have considered it a second conditional talking about what 'I' would do presently in the unreal situation like my two example sentences below. For the kind of sentence above with the 'did' in the 'if' clause, I feel it looks to be a sentence that talks about what would happen if something did or did not happen with no sense of unreality.

2. I would play chess more if I hadn't gone to a trip last week -- I think this is a mixed conditional talking about what 'I' would be doing now if I didn't take a trip last week.

3. I would play chess more if I had more time. -- I think this is a typical second conditional.

Sorry, but I have one more question: For the type of no. 3, sometimes, it is hard for me to distinguish if the same sentence is taking about a present unreal conditional or a future unreal conditional when the modal 'would' is in the main clause.