ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 02:39:58 GMT

Thank you very much to both of you.

Re: MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

MrPedantic — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:43:43 GMT

I would agree with CJ. It's "past indicative" in form, but "past subjunctive" in sense. (In older forms of English, there were some differences between them; but they have now converged.)

MrP

Re: MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

CalifJim — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:27:03 GMT

It certainly can't be indicative in meaning. It combines a past tense (explained) with future time (tomorrow). Clearly the reference is to something hypothetical -- something in the imagination of the character in the story regarding what was (hypothetically) going to happen the next day. Your use of would in your paraphrase also seems to capture that same idea.

Whether you want to adopt the terminological system in which this is called subjunctive or whether you want to adopt a less Latin-based system in which this is called a use of the past tense to indicate irreality is up to you! (I think the technical term is irrealis. You might look it up with Google and see if it applies to this case.)

Re: MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:58:37 GMT

Up a bump ... Thanks.

Re: MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:18:02 GMT

Wanted to say:

And, as a result, do you feel that the "explained" in the original is an indicative or a past subjunctive, where the past subjunctive is practically identical with the past indicative, except for "be", where it is "were":

MrPedantic, CalifJim: Past Subjunctive or Indicative

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:48:58 GMT

Hello:

<>Do you feel that:

They had placed a weapon in his hands. He smiled to himself at the thought of their faces when he explained the alternatives tomorrow.

[Tom Sharpe, Porterhouse Blue, p. 54]

is equivalent with:

They had placed a weapon in his hands. He smiled to himself at the thought of their faces when he would explain/would have explained the alternatives tomorrow.

or not?

And, as a result, do you feel that the explained in the original is an indicative or a past subjunctive, where the past subjunctive is practically identical with the past indicative, expect for be, where it is were:

Past subjunctive

I owned
he/she/it owned
we/you/they owned

Subjunctive mood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive_mood

=====

Thank you.