ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Yoong Liat — Sat, 03 May 2008 12:57:07 GMT

Avangi

I think the difference is: This is the third time tonight I have drunk a glass of beer. I'm actually clicking off three different past actions in the one sentence. In my original sentence, the sentence only mentions one action. It's the same structure as saying, "That was the worst beer I drank tonight." Hmmm. This is getting interesting. "This is the worst beer I have drunk tonight, up till now."? So you say since I drank it in the past we must use past perfect?

- A.

.Yoong, do you think this should be a separate thread, or is it old hash? I'm still confused. When a phone rings isn't it always in the past, unless you use progressive, "The phone is ringing"? "The phone rings" is a stage direction, or a special narrative style. Right?

When a phone rings isn't it always in the past. No, it can in the present perfect.

As I said earlier we can say 'This is the second/third/fourth ... time the phone has rung.

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Avangi — Thu, 01 May 2008 05:43:29 GMT

I think the difference is: This is the third time tonight I have drunk a glass of beer. I'm actually clicking off three different past actions in the one sentence. In my original sentence, the sentence only mentions one action. It's the same structure as saying, "That was the worst beer I drank tonight." Hmmm. This is getting interesting. "This is the worst beer I have drunk tonight, up till now."? So you say since I drank it in the past we must use past perfect?

- A.

Edit. Hey, a thousand pardons. I must go to work. Later.

Yoong, do you think this should be a separate thread, or is it old hash? I'm still confused. When a phone rings isn't it always in the past, unless you use progressive, "The phone is ringing"? "The phone rings" is a stage direction, or a special narrative style. Right?

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Yoong Liat — Thu, 01 May 2008 05:29:28 GMT

Hi Avangi

Let me use another sentence.

This is the third time the phone has rung.

NOT This is the third time the phone rang.

If you use the past time, then it should be That was the third time the phone had rung.

Therefore you should use had drunk in your sentence.

Do you agree?

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Avangi — Thu, 01 May 2008 05:22:08 GMT

Hi Yoong,

I'm thinking simple past. Two things happened sort of simultaneously: I drank it, and it became number three. I don't think the previous two beers enter into the action. Tell me how you're looking at it (?) (I'm not necessarily looking at the previous example sentence as providing time context. Maybe I should be.)

- A.

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Yoong Liat — Thu, 01 May 2008 04:22:43 GMT

Hi Avangi

That was the third glass of beer I drank tonight.

Just to confirm: Shouldn't it be That was the third glass of beer I had drunk tonight. ?

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Avangi — Thu, 01 May 2008 04:11:24 GMT

You're welcome, Jisu.

I just read the post again. Never thought much about it, but now I realize it can be very tricky, or confusing. If I may, I'd like to stress one point:

When there are only two people or things in a group, and you're talking about adding another one, you're looking for any one which will make it three. It's not a specific one. It's indefinite, hence we use the indefinite article "a." I just drank two glasses of beer. I think I'll have a third one.

But once that glass becomes part of the group, making three, It's no longer indefinite. That was the third glass of beer I drank tonight. We're now talking about a specific glass - a definite one.

That doesn't mean if there are three friends, Joe is #1, Bill is #2, and Ed is #3. A minute ago I saw three of you. Now there are only two. What happened to the third guy? We're talking about a definite guy. But if the speaker isn't sure, and he thinks maybe there are only two, he'd say, "Hey, didn't I see a third guy a minute ago?"

And now that we know Brahms wrote four symphonies, the third symphony will always be the third one he wrote.

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Jisu98 — Thu, 01 May 2008 02:58:23 GMT

Thank you Philip, Avangi and Yoong Liat!

Was a great help.

For 'the third' vs 'a third', My question was answered by Avangi. Thank you!

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Yoong Liat — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:15:31 GMT

Hi Jisu98

I think you are wondering what is the difference between a third time and the third time. If what I think is correct, the following is for your information.

The third edition is in two parts: the Third Edition of MASS was published ... Springer's information has shown some confusion: at one time this volume was ...
www.stats.ox.ac.uk/pub/MASS3/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

Note of the third meeting of the working party for the Disability ... Concerns were expressed about late diagnosis of dyslexia leaving no time to put ...
www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/disab/DES%20wp%20minutes%203.pdf - Similar pages

We explore a third option, perfectly consistent with Malament's conception of the meaning of 'time reversal': according to this third account, the E field, ...
users.ox.ac.uk/~orie1779/discgroup/Abstracts.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

A third time, Å uruppag gave instructions to his son. ... 152A. na de5 ab-ba niÄ2 kal-la-am3 /gu2\-zu á¸«e2-em-Å¡i-ak, A third time, Å uruppag gave instructions ...
www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/edition2/usingintro.php - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Avangi — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:50:54 GMT

I tried to run away. Two big guys were right on my heels. A third was close behind. Finally the third guy dropped back. / / I think two cases of beer will be plenty, but it might not be a bad idea to bring a third, just to be sure. / / Did Brahms write a third symphony?

(also) a third of a cup of flour

"We shook hands" is more common, and that would be reciprocated. "He shook my hand" usually indicates that he took the initiative. It would also apply where A offers his hand, not knowing if B will accept. (Perhaps they'd had a fight.) When B responds favorably, A would say, "B shook my hand."

It would also apply when in the presence of a famous person, indicating surprise or great pleasure at the honor: "He shook my hand!" It's understood that the act is always reciprocal. Grasping someone's hand and shaking it, and having the person not respond in any way, is a terrible experience.

Re: shook my hand? a third?

Philip — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:40:59 GMT

shook my hand = greeting

THIRD: with no context, here is an attempt.

A third of the people in attendance were under the age of 50. (two-thirds were older)

The third person in line was drunk, so they didn't let him into the theatre. (two people were ahead of him)

shook my hand? a third?

Jisu98 — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:23:54 GMT

Hello!

What is the meaning of "He shook my hand" ?

Does that mean He shook hands with me (Greeting gesture when people meet) ?

or just hold my hand and shook.

One more question:

Usually the first, the second, the third..will be right expressions. Right? Do you use a third frequently?

Teach me the difference of 'the third' and 'a third', please! thank you