ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Grammar Geek — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:33:51 GMT

However, it seems you wanted to create a surprise for the reader.

"What? Only 5%? That's terrible!" ... and then... "Oh! I see! 95% before they ever graduate. Well, that's different! What a wonderful program that must be."

This is lost when you join them. Joined, it sounds like the answer to the question "Why are only 5% of your students placed after graduation?" "Only 5% are placed after graduation because the other 95% are placed before graduation."

You can avoid the informality of starting with "Because" by replacing it with a dummy subject: That's because ...

(And YL, I do appreciate your confidence, but I certainly have missed things in the past! However, given the length of this thread, I would have come back to correct by error well before now if I felt that the verb had been incorrect. I agree with you on the verb - 5% of the students are..., 95% of the students are...)

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Creativeguru — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:43:37 GMT

Thanks a lot Yoong Liat

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:21:58 GMT

Hi Creativeguru

Only 5% of our students are placed after completion of their training because 95% are placed before completion of the training.

Your sentences should be joined as shown above.

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Creativeguru — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:23:54 GMT

At the end of the day what is appropriate word that should replay 'because in the original sentence' kindly let me know

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:27:06 GMT

Hi Goodman

If you had followed the thread closely, you would have noticed the following. In other words a guru has replied to the question. I agree with Barbara because she has a good command of English, and I've read about this usage before.

Creativeguru asked:

Only 5% of our students are placed after completion of their training! Because 95% are placed before

completion of the training.

Grammar Geek replied: It's okay, but starting the second sentence with a "Because" makes it informal."

^In^{South Africa}^{, about 5 million peopleâ 20 percent of the adult populationâare thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for}^{South Africa}^{âs ...}

Here the pertinent word is 'people'. Therefore 'are' should be used. It has nothing to do with the word 'population'.

^In^{South Africa}^{, about 5 million people (20 percent of the adult population) are thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for}^{South Africa}^{âs ...}

^{Percentages usually take a plural verb if the related noun (whether stated or implied) is in the plural: Ten per cent or the samples were substandard.}

^{Even one per cent tends to take a plural verb: One per cent of the samples were substandard.}

^{(The Rigtht Word at the Right Time)}

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Goodman — Tue, 06 May 2008 22:51:48 GMT

^{From my Googling, I entered a quoted search â20% of the populationâ. Then I randomly selected}

^{these articles and the result was nearly 50/50 with singular and plural verb agreement.}

^{Uganda, Abstinence and the Spread of HIV : NPR}

^{Aug 14, 2006 ... In Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, more than 20 percent of the adult population is infected. -- South Africa (along with India) ...}

^{WPJ Fall 2004 - Political Islam: Image and Reality by Mohammed Ayoob}

^{In South Africa, about 5 million peopleâ 20 percent of the adult populationâare thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for South Africaâs ...}

^{Taiwan is a hyperendemic area where 15 percent to 20 percent of the adult population carries HBV. A massive vaccination program was initiated in Taiwan in ...}

^{File Format:}^{PDF/Adobe Acrobat -},,'html','27','')" href="http://74.125.39.104/search?q=cache:JP4xFmQDmWgJ:www.ed.gov/pubs/HowAdultsLearn/Sohlman.pdf+%2220+percent+of+the+adult+population%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=27&gl=us">^{View as HTML}
^{More than 20 percent of the adult population}^{participates in one or several study. circles (Rubenson 1996). The results from the IALS study illustrate some ...}

^{Any experts like to give it a stab?}

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Jackson6612 — Tue, 06 May 2008 22:14:42 GMT

Cool Breeze

I meant exactly what I wrote.

That's what I asked you about that what did you exactly mean by what you wrote. Please clarify. Thanks, in advance.

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Goodman — Tue, 06 May 2008 22:13:29 GMT

^{Hi Liat,
I think what you said is contradicting. You are saying both of my exmaples are grammatically acceptable only with the right perception.}

A group of students was found lost in the forest. (If the students are perceived as a group, is should be used.)
If the rule sticks as you described about
50% of the students.. then my first example could not be accpetable because the pertinent word is "students" like you said.

^{^{A group of students were found lost in the forest. (If the students are perceived as individual students are could be used.)
I can agree with that!}
^{<<>> Half / 50% of the students were absent. (The pertinent word is students; student is a countable noun. If there are 100 students, then 50 of them were absent.)}
^{The bottom line is, a learner (even for me) may have a hard time deciding if it's a singular or plural verb agreement, even though I thought I know!}}

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Cool Breeze — Tue, 06 May 2008 20:20:08 GMT

Jackson6612

Cool Breeze
Since and as would be just as "grammatical" as because in the above sentence but they just aren't used.

Sorry for asking you this.

What did you mean by the underlined sentence?

I meant exactly what I wrote.

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Yoong Liat — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:40:16 GMT

Hi Goodman

^{A group of students was found lost in the forest. (If the students are perceived as a group, is should be used.)}

^{^{A group of students were found lost in the forest. (If the students are perceived as individual students are could be used.)}
^{Half / 50% of the students were absent. (The pertinent word is students; student is a countable noun. If there are 100 students, then 50 of them were absent.)}
^{I hope this gives you a clear picture why are shoud be used.}
^{Best wishes}
^YL}

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

New2grammar — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:34:35 GMT

This is just my humble opinion.

In the case of "X percent of S", the verb, from my observation,
always agrees with the noun S.

For some reason, percent doesn't follow the patterns set by group, set etc.

I guess it's another exception. I could be wrong.

Let's wait for the other gurus.

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Goodman — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:18:28 GMT

Liat,

^{I donât think the correct answer should be dependent on the number of student based on the original question which was}

^{only 5% of the students are placed after completion of their training. Clearly, the subject is the percentage which is â5%â, not the student; if my understanding is true.}

^{My question was, should âisâ be used instead of âareâ? And I think it should.}

^{If this statement is transformed into a question, it would be âwhat is the percentage of}

^{Job placement after the students completed their training? Not how many students are placed.}

^{For the same reason:}

^{A set of tires for my new car costs me $500, not âcostâ.}

^{A group of students was found lost in the forest.}

^{Common belief is plural verb should be used in this kind of sentence construction.}

^{We need the gurus to clear up this oneâ¦.}

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Yoong Liat — Tue, 06 May 2008 18:38:33 GMT

Goodman

This question hit me just now!

Is â^areâ the correct verb ? To me â5%â is used as a collective noun which is treated

as a singular subject. It should have a singular verb agreement, shouldnât it?

2Only 5% of our students are placed after completion of their training! (It is correct. If a class has 40 students, then 5% of the students would be 2 students. Therefore 'are' should be used.)

Compare: A 10% service fee is added to the room charge.

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Jackson6612 — Tue, 06 May 2008 17:35:10 GMT

Cool Breeze
In informal style grammatical considerations are often cast aside in all languages, and using because without a main clause is very common:
"Why didn't you call him?"
"Because I didn't know his number."
Since and as would be just as "grammatical" as because in the above sentence but they just aren't used.

Sorry for asking you this.

What did you mean by the underlined sentence? Did you mean:
1: Since and as... in the above sentence but they cannot be used in the above sentence?
Or
2: Since and as... in the above sentence but I just didn't use them?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Goodman — Tue, 06 May 2008 16:46:16 GMT

This question hit me just now!

Is â^areâ the correct verb ? To me â5%â is used as a collective noun which is treated

as a singular subject. It should have a singular verb agreement, shouldnât it?

Only 5% of our students are placed after completion of their training!

Compare: A 10% service fee is added to the room charge

ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Here the pertinent word is 'people'. Therefore 'are' should be used. It has nothing to do with the word 'population'.

In South Africa, about 5 million people (20 percent of the adult population) are thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for South Africaâs ...

Percentages usually take a plural verb if the related noun (whether stated or implied) is in the plural: Ten per cent or the samples were substandard.

Even one per cent tends to take a plural verb: One per cent of the samples were substandard.

(The Rigtht Word at the Right Time)

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Uganda, Abstinence and the Spread of HIV : NPR

Aug 14, 2006 ... In Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, more than 20 percent of the adult population is infected. -- South Africa (along with India) ...

WPJ Fall 2004 - Political Islam: Image and Reality by Mohammed Ayoob

In South Africa, about 5 million peopleâ 20 percent of the adult populationâare thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for South Africaâs ...

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

Re: Is the sentence structure right?

^In^{South Africa}^{, about 5 million people (20 percent of the adult population) are thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for}^{South Africa}^{âs ...}

^{Percentages usually take a plural verb if the related noun (whether stated or implied) is in the plural: Ten per cent or the samples were substandard.}

^{Even one per cent tends to take a plural verb: One per cent of the samples were substandard.}

^{(The Rigtht Word at the Right Time)}

^{Uganda, Abstinence and the Spread of HIV : NPR}

^{Aug 14, 2006 ... In Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, more than 20 percent of the adult population is infected. -- South Africa (along with India) ...}

^{WPJ Fall 2004 - Political Islam: Image and Reality by Mohammed Ayoob}

^{In South Africa, about 5 million peopleâ 20 percent of the adult populationâare thought to be infected with HIV. Adult infection rates for South Africaâs ...}