ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: I thought

Yoong Liat — Thu, 08 May 2008 10:05:47 GMT

New2grammar

Thanks Kooyeen, YoongLiat and CJ.

YoongLiat, I never doubted your answer from grammatical standpoint. It thought it could be some sort of slang or something ungrammatical that native speakers said informally or maybe less educated native speakers said. I'm sorry if I offended you. To me, you're a native speaker. But sometimes, as we all know, there are variations in the language. So the conclusion is that it was a typo. Sorry for making a fuss.

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't think I've reached that standard.

Re: I thought

New2grammar — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:27:22 GMT

Thanks Kooyeen, YoongLiat and CJ.

YoongLiat, I never doubted your answer from grammatical standpoint. It thought it could be some sort of slang or something ungrammatical that native speakers said informally or maybe less educated native speakers said. I'm sorry if I offended you. To me, you're a native speaker. But sometimes, as we all know, there are variations in the language. So the conclusion is that it was a typo. Sorry for making a fuss.

Re: I thought

CalifJim — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:23:15 GMT

Re: I thought

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:17:18 GMT

Many thanks, CJ,, for your authoritative reply. Now New2grammar and Believer should be glad that they have got out of their maze.

Re: I thought

CalifJim — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:12:17 GMT

New2grammar
What's the difference between "I thought I knew" and " I thought I know"?

I was told that the verb following "I thought" must be past tense.

Kooyeen has the answer:

you need to use the past tense after verbs like thought, didn't think, felt, knew, etc. Verbs like those seem to force a backshift in tense because they are more related to your "feelings" at a certain moment in the past than the "information" you had or got

Memorize:

I thought I knew / I thought I had to / I thought I was / I thought they were / I thought I could / I thought they would / ...

I knew I had to / I knew I was / I knew they were / I knew I could / I knew they would / I knew they wanted / ...

I felt I knew / I felt I had to / I felt I was / I felt they were / I felt I could / I felt he would / ...

I hoped I was / I hoped they were / I hoped I could / I hoped I didn't have to ...

I believed I knew / I believed I could / I believed they were / I believed I was / ...

I didn't think ... / I didn't know ... / ... / Did you know ...? / Did you feel ...? / ... (same for negations and questions)

Adding that doesn't change the basic principle here: I thought that I knew ...

_____________

And don't attempt to use present tense after thought, knew, felt, hoped, or believed -- and you'll be fine. You'll sound just like a native speaker.

But put a present tense there (I knew they are / I thought I am / I hoped I can / ...), and you'll expose yourself immediately as a non-native!!!

P.S. If you make a distinct pause in speech to indicate a direct quote, these principles do not apply:

I thought, "I know how to do that. Why are they saying I don't?"

I thought [ short pause ] I know how to ...

You absolutely cannot use the complementizer that in this case:

*I thought [ short pause ] that I know how to ... (NO!)

Re: I thought

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:10:15 GMT

Hi Kooyeen

I agree with you completely, and the following example is excellent.

Oh, so you are American? I thought you were Canadian! I didn't know you were from Florida.

However, New2grammar and Believer are not convinced that I've provided them with the correct reply.

That's why I believe that a native speaker's authoritative reply will convince them.

Re: I thought

Kooyeen — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:50:01 GMT

I'm not a native speaker but I am pretty sure the version with the present tense "I though I know" sounds quite odd. You could hear something similar when "I know" is reported as direct speech, or is not really linked to "I thought":
There was this girl, you know, and... like, I thought, "I know her... I'm pretty sure I know her", you know, I had that weird feeling.

But I'm sure that's not what you meant. In non-broken speech, you need to use the past tense after verbs like thought, didn't think, felt, knew, etc. Verbs like those seem to force a backshift in tense because they are more related to your "feelings" at a certain moment in the past than the "information" you had or got.
Oh, so you are American? I thought you were Canadian! I didn't know you were from Florida.

Re: I thought

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:12:15 GMT

New2grammar

What's the difference between "I thought I knew" and " I thought I know"?

I was told that the verb following "I thought" must be past tense.

Could a native speaker please respond to New2grammar's query?

Many thanks.

Re: I thought

New2grammar — Wed, 07 May 2008 07:57:15 GMT

Actually, I didn't think I was a typo either so I created this thread.
But after YL replied, it thought it could have been a typo since the difference is only one
character. Well, I guess we need more confirmation. Maybe it's matter of style. It could be
grammatically incorrect but idiomatic to native speakers. I don't know. We'll see.

Re: I thought

Believer — Wed, 07 May 2008 07:37:18 GMT

Hi,

I think there is more to it than it just being a typo.

I think you can use 'I thought I knew' and 'I thought I know' under different circumstances. I think with 'I thought I know', the event and knowing is more current and up-to-date... and related to the current situation. Whereas, with 'I thought I knew', the event and his/her knowing are all in the past.

1. Jim, do you know how to make this?

I thought I know how to make that but apparently I don't.

2. Jim, why didn't you make that yesterday?

I thought I knew how to make it but I didn't. Sorry.

I wrote those examples but am not sure they make much sense (even to myself). I would like to know more myself. It would be nice to get some help.

Re: I thought

New2grammar — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:06:16 GMT

Thanks YoongLiat for confirming that.
Come to think of it, it could have been just a typo. Afterall,
the difference is only one letter. I've made more severe typos.

The bottom line is, a learner (even for me) may have a hard time deciding if it's a singular or plural verb agreement, even though I thought I know!

Re: I thought

Yoong Liat — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:47:55 GMT

Hi New2grammar

It should be I thought I knew.

I think I know the answer.

I didn't know you were here. (You are surprised to see that person at that place.)

I thought

New2grammar — Wed, 07 May 2008 04:29:25 GMT

What's the difference between "I thought I knew" and " I thought I know"?

I was told that the verb following "I thougt" must be past tense.

(Goodman, hope you don't mind me using your words. I don't mean to pick on you,
just trying to learn from your posts and any other gurus' here. Maybe you could reply to this)

Thanks in advance.