ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: conjunctive adverb

Clive — Fri, 09 May 2008 03:26:37 GMT

Hi,

Hi again,

Thank you again, Clive. My thanks also go to GG.

You said this:

Or perhaps you could use such a word/phrase to start an independent sentence, and see if it sounds OK.

What I am troubled by is the use of word 'independent'. I feel if left alone 'I flunked the test before' would not be truelly independent in that a reader might wonder what 'that' might be in 'the test before that'. I feel that there should be a sentence or two to explain or lay down the context for the use of 'that' in 'the test before THAT' or the second sentence wouldn't be trully independent. When we speak of an independent sentence in terms of grammar, it just means a sentence that follows the rules for forming a sentence, Thus, 'He said it' is an independent sentence.

You are confusing yourself by thinking of an independent sentence in terms of independent meaning. That seems to me to be a philosophical question. It''s like trying to define what we mean by 'an independent thought'. That's a difficult question.

Also, my other question is in the line of this:

The slanted version of the correct version of my sentence is this:

I excelled in the last test, whereas I flunked the test before that.

To me, I can substitute 'whereas' with 'and' it would work fine.

I excelled in the last test, AND I flunked the test before that. Yes, this is fine, although you have lost the extra meaning, the contrast, that is provided by the word 'whereas'.

But what GG seemed to have said is 'whereas' creates a subordinate clause like 'while': That was my initial thought too, but on reflection it seems similar to 'but'.

I excelled in the last test, WHILE I flunked the test before that. -- Is the use of the comma before 'while' OK? I think it is not necessary. I wouldn't say it's necessary, but I prefer a comma there.

I am confused if 'whereas' is in the same category as 'and' and is able to be called 'a true conjunction -- as called by you' or not in the same conjuntional level as 'and' but in the same subordinate-clause generating conjunction level like 'while'. See my comment above.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: conjunctive adverb

Anonymous — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:24:59 GMT

Thank you again, Clive. My thanks also go to GG.

You said this:

Or perhaps you could use such a word/phrase to start an independent sentence, and see if it sounds OK.

Also, my other question is in the line of this:

The slanted version of the correct version of my sentence is this:

I excelled in the last test, whereas I flunked the test before that.

To me, I can substitute 'whereas' with 'and' it would work fine.

I excelled in the last test, AND I flunked the test before that.

But what GG seemed to have said is 'whereas' creates a subordinate clause like 'while':

I excelled in the last test, WHILE I flunked the test before that. -- Is the use of the comma before 'while' OK? I think it is not necessary.

Re: conjunctive adverb

Grammar Geek — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:20:59 GMT

There are the ones you're looking for:

and, but, or, yet, for, nor, so

All of these create a subordinate clause, and using a semi-colon or a period before them would be incorrect:after, before, when, while, since, until, though (although, even though), whereas, while.

Re: conjunctive adverb

Clive — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:23:19 GMT

Hi again,

I gather what you mean by a true conjunction is one that connects two independent-in-content clauses like 'and' and 'but' Yes -- and that's my guess but please tell me your definition of it if you feel up to it. Thank you.

How many of these are true conjunctions that (should) act like 'and' and 'but'? None of them.

1.adversely 2.anyhow 3.as a result 4.at any rate 5.at least 6.besides 7.by and large 8.by far 9.consequently 10.even so 11.finally 12.for example

13.after all 14.also

If it is not too much work, then please tell me how I can spot a true conjunction if I see one. Well, you could check in your dictionary and see if the word is defined as a conjunction.

Or perhaps you could use such a word/phrase to start an independent sentence, and see if it sounds OK.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: conjunctive adverb

Anonymous — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:41:43 GMT

Thank you, Clive. I gather what you mean by a true conjunction is one that connects two independent-in-content clauses like 'and' and 'but' -- and that's my guess but please tell me your definition of it if you feel up to it. Thank you.

How many of these are true conjunctions that (should) act like 'and' and 'but'?

1.adversely 2.anyhow 3.as a result 4.at any rate 5.at least 6.besides 7.by and large 8.by far 9.consequently 10.even so 11.finally 12.for example

13.after all 14.also

If it is too much work, then please tell me how I can spot a true conjunction if I see one.

Re: conjunctive adverb

Clive — Thu, 08 May 2008 04:04:26 GMT

Hi,

When do we need to use a conjuntive adverb with a semicolon and use it at the start of a separate sentence? You never need to use it with a semi-colon. If you choose to, that's a subjective decision by you, based on your feelings about style.

accordingly

I excelled in the last test; accordingly, I was given a commendation following the tradition.

I excelled in the last test. Accordingly, I was given a commendation following the tradition.

I feel when the clauses are short and are related closely in content -- more so than the cases involving the starting a new sentence, then a semicolon followed by a conjunctive adverb is appropriate. Thus, the second one wouldn't be appropriate; whereas, the first one would be.

I don't see anything wrong with #2 above. In my opinion, the word 'accordingly' at the start of a sentence already establishes a close connection with the previous sentence. I don't see why you would need to try to make it closer still. Anyway, it's your choice. However, here is some advice. Writing that is full of semi-colons starts to seem almost irritating to the reader. In other words, my advice is to use semi-colons sparingly.

whereas

I excelled in the last test; whereas, I flunked the test before that.

I excelled in the last test. Whereas, I flunked the test before that.

Again, the same argument. This is a different case, because 'whereas' is a true conjunction. 'Whereas, I flunked the test' is not a grammatical sentence, anymore than 'Because I flunked the test' is a grammatical sentence. This means that #2 is incorrect. it also means that #1 is incorrect, because both "parts" of a sentence with a semi-colon have to be capable of standing as independent sentences.

You need to write it as I excelled in the last test, whereas I flunked the test before that.

Best wishes, Clive

conjunctive adverb

Anonymous — Thu, 08 May 2008 01:07:03 GMT

Hi,

When do we need to use a conjuntive adverb with a semicolon and use it at the start of a separate sentence?

accordingly

I excelled in the last test; accordingly, I was given a commendation following the tradition.

I excelled in the last test. Accordingly, I was given a commendation following the tradition.

whereas

I excelled in the last test; whereas, I flunked the test before that.

I excelled in the last test. Whereas, I flunked the test before that.

Again, the same argument.