ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: corrections

Ant_222 — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:42:08 GMT

BTW, it seems I have found how your sentence can be used.

A: Â«If you had't lost your keys we would be there (now)!Â»
A said that if I hadn't lost my keys we would have been there. (by the time A said the phrase)

Re: corrections

New2grammar — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:59:56 GMT

Thanks Ant. You have been a great help. I need some time to disgest what you said. It doesn't come naturally to me as it is to you. I really appreciate it!

Re: corrections

Ant_222 — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:44:09 GMT

Â«If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store, we wouldn't have missed our flight and would be in Italy now (my preference - 2nd conditional), would have arrived in Italy now( 3rd) , would have been in Italy (3rd I guess but somehow lacking something :) )Â»

All correct except the last variation which _is_ lacking someting.

Â«If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store, we wouldn't have missed our flight and would have been in ItalyÂ» â if you think this sentence may be correct in a certain context, than please provide one and tell what it would mean. Otherwise I can't tell you anyting more about it...

Â«Let's push the event back in time by 10 years, the 2nd condition will fail because most likely it was just a vacation so you would have returned to yoru home country. In this case, the last choice stands out better, I think. On second thought, it would require changing the preposition from 'in' to 'to' or changing the verb to 'visited'Â»

Then, the right sentence would be:
Â«If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store we wouldn't have missed our flight and would have arrived to Italy on timeÂ» â Assuming they got to Italy by another plane, say on the next day, or
Â«If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store we wouldn't have missed our flight and would have visited ItalyÂ» â assuming they failed to go to Italy that year.

The verb "visit" is perfective while "be" is not â that's the problem with your original sentence, but I think it can be fixed by specifting the time:
Â«If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store we wouldn't have missed our flight and would have been in Italy by SundayÂ»

Re: corrections

New2grammar — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:20:07 GMT

Thanks Ant for your reply. I get it now.

REgarding the last point, I would have been in the hospital is, I think, a third conditional

For example,

If you hadn't stopped at the grocery store, we wouldn't have missed our flight and would be in Italy now (my preference - 2nd conditional), would have arrived in Italy now( 3rd) , would have been in Italy (3rd I guess but somehow lacking something :) )

What do you think?

(Edit, let's push the Italy event back in time by 10 years, the 2nd condition will fail because most likely it was just a vacation so you would have returned to yoru home country. In this case, the last choice stands out better, I think. On second thought, it would require changing the preposition from 'in' to 'to' or changing the verb to 'visited')

(Edit 2: I would have been in the hospital means "he would have been hospitalized and discharged" right?. A little help here. I'm not good at conditionals. I always struggle with them :( )

Re: corrections

Ant_222 — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:04:58 GMT

I did read your blue suggestions and deliberately commented only on the things that I thought you had missed.

Â«"I unlocked _the_ dogâs chain", I suggested the leash insteadÂ»
Every dog's chain is a leash, but not vice versa. Otherwise "unleashed" is OK. Hope you didn't overlook m correction â the definite article.

Â«I'm believe the cracking sound came from the soon to fall branch. That fits the context better. Otherwise, why would anyone mention it?Â» Yes, but, the narrator didn't know what was happening until after the accident, right! So I think "as if" works well to describe the happenings from the narrators viewpoint.

Â«"very thin sound as if it _was/were coming_ from far away" Is afar OK or too poetic?Â»
Yes, as long as you say just "from afar", not "from an afar place", which is incorrect.

Â«"personal preference, 'a huge tree bracnh'" â this way lost is the emphasis of the branch's belonging to _that_ tree. Do you think the emphasis is needed though? I was worried it would be a redudant emphasis since the passage had mentioned the location of the person)Â» Yes, it is a bit redundant, but to me it makes the tale more interconneced. Personally I'd use just "a branch" without mentioning either "the tree" or "a tree" and thus avoiding both redundancy and "weak coupling"!

Â«"made me very afraid" â terrified me a lot, maybe...the original didn't sound natural to me either but couldn't find anything wrong.Â»
What's unnatural is wrong! Also try searching "very afraid" and "made me afraid" is Google, to grasp the usage better.

Â«"Or else I would have _got_ in (the) hospital" or "would be in (the) hospital" (mixed consitional) Is'be' wrong? I have no problem withyour suggestion but think either is fine.Â»

1. ...or else I would have spent a month in the hospital â Type 3 conditional (hypothetical past event)
2. ... or else I would be in the hospital (now) â Mixed conditional (hypothetical present event)
As to "would have been", it doesn't make much sence to me, but maybe it's me who's wring? What do you think your version means?

Re: corrections

New2grammar — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:39:29 GMT

Thanks for correcting my mistake. I'm glad that you did. In fact, please do it everytime! :)

I have some comments on your suggestions. I would like to hear from you.

"I unlocked _the_ dogâs chain", I suggested the leash instead
"so he can could roam freely" â can or could? I suggested could and struck through 'can' but the format was not transfered over from the orginal thread.
"I heard a voice as if something _was_ cracking"
("as if" is OK as long as the sound is described with no realation to its possible source) (I'm believe the cracking sound came from the soon to fall branch. That fits the context better. Otherwise, why would anyone mention it?
"very thin sound as if it _was/were coming_ from far away" Is afar OK or too poetic?
"personal preference, 'a huge tree bracnh'" â this way lost is the emphasis of the branch's belonging to _that_ tree. Do you think the emphasis is needed though? I was worried it would be a redudant emphasis since the passage had mentioned the location of the person)
" (F)or a moment I _couldn't_ _realise_ what _had_ happened." I agree with you
"made me very afraid" â terrified me a lot, maybe...the original didn't sound natural to me either but couldn't find anything wrong.
"Or else I would have _got_ in (the) hospital" or "would be in (the) hospital" (mixed consitional) Is'be' wrong? I have no problem withyour suggestion but think either is fine.

Re: corrections

Ant_222 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:41:23 GMT

Here's my try:

"I unlocked _the_ dogâs chain",
"so he can could roam freely" â can or could?
"I heard a voice as if something _was_ cracking"
("as if" is OK as long as the sound is described with no realation to its possible source)
"very thin sound as if it _was/were coming_ from far away"
"personal preference, 'a huge tree bracnh'" â this way lost is the emphasis of the branch's belonging to _that_ tree.
" (F)or a moment I _couldn't_ _realise_ what _had_ happened."
"made me very afraid" â terrified me a lot, maybe...
"Or else I would have _got_ in (the) hospital" or "would be in (the) hospital" (mixed consitional)

Re: corrections

Ant_222 — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:30:21 GMT

Â«I'm sorry to repost but I thought it helped to shift the focus to my changes instead of the original grammarÂ»

Hope you don't mind if I correct it: Â«I'm sorry to repost but I thought it _would help_ to shift the focus to my changesÂ»

corrections

New2grammar — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:01:47 GMT

Hi, I'm wonder if the changes I've made to the following passage are OK. I'm sorry to repost but I thought it helped to shift the focus to my changes instead of the original grammar. Thanks.

Yesterday after dinner, I went out for a stroll (is there any difference if I say 'a walk'?) with my dog. I unlocked dogâs chain (I'd prefer, 'removed the leash' or even better 'unleashed him') so he can could roam freely (can I say, run around) and I was standing next to my car parked under a tree (personal preference 'standing under a tree next to my car'). I heard a voice as if something is cracking (I suggest 'heard a cracking sound' - your phrase sounds like it turned out it wasn't a crack but it was), very thin sound as if it is coming came from very far away place (doesn't sound natrual to me, maybe 'afar'). But then after a few seconds (I'd prefer 'A few seconds later') a huge branch of the tree (personal preference, 'a huge tree bracnh') fell just next to me. (F)or a moment I didnât realised what happened. But after coming to senses lots of horrifying images conjured up in my mind and it made me very afraid. (I)f I had have been standing even an inch ahead that branch would have fell fallen on my head and it would have hit me badly and injured me severely. I am really thankful to God that he saved me or else I would have been in (the) hospital or may be strolling( I'm not sure on this, in writing, I guess I would say 'in heaven strolling') in the heaven ( or hell :p)!
(As you can see, I have so many questions myself. I don't think I've helped you in any way. Just make sure your tenses are consistent, at least in writing. I think your tense switching is acceptable in speech. After all, native speakers do that all the time but in a combination that remains mistery to me. Maybe a native speaker can comment on that.)
One more question, is 'up' needed after conjure?