ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: kayak

Avangi — Wed, 14 May 2008 18:50:13 GMT

Not to worry, N2g, your progress is noticable.

P.S. About the "operator guy," perhaps the most common expression in the US for the guy in charge of something like that is "the manager." That may not be his official title, but it usually works.

Re: kayak

New2grammar — Wed, 14 May 2008 18:38:56 GMT

Thank you, Avangi, Nona and GG. Most of my questions have been answered. Some can't be explained in a few words and require the learner to gain more exposure to the language. I totally understand that and most likely will still make the same mistakes in the foreseeable future.

Avangi, sorry that I missed your edit.

Re: kayak

Avangi — Wed, 14 May 2008 18:22:33 GMT

New2grammar
1. Is 'how much for a kayak' a complete sentence?
2. In 5th, Why is 'make the very most of an opportunity' not suitable?
My justification, they have an opportunity to kayak during the vacation though
the weather is not favorable but it's still doable.

3. This may be difficult to answer. Why 'to cross' is better than 'crossing'? and I've
heard "Don't get INTO trouble". Why is 'in' better?

1. No, it's not. "How much do you charge for a kayak?" is a complete sentence.

Like Nona, I just try to imagine two buddies on the beach saying these lines to each other (US types). I'm not sure what the rules are.

2. As I said in my edit, I decided you're right and I'm wrong.

3. It's just what I think would be said under the circumstances. For phrases that are used often, the most comfortable version is usually favored. It's simply easier to say "in trouble" than "into trouble." If you could measure the work your mouth has to do, I expect you'd find it takes about four times as much work to say "into trouble" as to say "in trouble." There are simply some things I can't imagine two guys saying (who don't need to impress each other). For example, "We've been here for 4 days and are going home tomorrow."

- A.

Edit. I'm glad GG came up with the correct spelling of "buoy." I kept staring at it. I knew some little thing wasn't quite right. (We only had 18 miles of coastline in New Hampshire, and none in Vermont. Maine is ALL coastline. What do I know about buoys?)

Re: kayak

Grammar Geek — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:55:47 GMT

Just a comment on the half-day thing: I read it the same as Nona. A half day is four hours.

I thought seize the moment is okay - it seems to me that after it rained for three days, today is the first day it's NOT raining (even though it may again).

When you plan a vacation, you don't have access to a weather report for the four days you'll be there. Instead, you know it's "the rainy season" or "the dry season."

I can't imagine how you can spend four hours kayaking around the same little cove if you can't go past the buoys. You can go about 3 miles in an hour, so if you plan to do that for four hours, that's a lot of trips back and forth across that little beach area.

Re: kayak

New2grammar — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:08:12 GMT

Hi Nona. Thanks for your reply. I have a few questions.

1. Why is season a better choice than weather?

2. Is hire a substitute for rental in the UK? For example, do you say car rental or car hire?

3. Do you think of a day as a work day or business day, therefore half a day is 4 hours since a business day in the UK is 8 hours? I think of it as a day (24 hours).

4. Since you didn't change my original expression, seize the moment, I assume you're fine with it. Am I right?

Re: kayak

nona the brit — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:22:38 GMT

My take. I've tried to go for a natural conversational British English style.Remember that there are usually many different ways of expressing the same thing. Also, contractions are much more natural for spoken language.

A: Let's go over there and see whether they rent kayaks.

B: It doesn't look like there's anybody in the booth. (I found 'guarding' particularly odd here). Maybe they're closed because of the rain over the last few days. It still looks pretty cloudy . I think it's going to rain again.

A: We'll see. I really want to go kayaking. We've already been here 4 days and are going home tomorrow. I don't want to miss this opportunity.

B: We should have paid more attention to the season when we picked the dates. It would have been a great holiday if the weather had been better.

A: Cheer up. Seize the moment.

<B sees a man lying in a hammock?

B: Excuse me, do you work for the kayak hire?/Do you hire the kayaks?/Are you the person to see about the kayaks?

B: How much is it?

Operator: $25 per hour, 3 hours minimum.

B: How about $100 for half a day?/Would you take $100 for a half day? (although your maths is a bit off. 4 hours = half day = $100 at the usual rate?)

Operator: Oh go on then. You guys are lucky I'm in a good mood today. The deal is you empty out the water and stack the kayak on the rack when you've finished. OK?

B: Sure will.

Operator: Also, don't cross the bouy line. Someone drowned the other day and some new rules ban anyone from crossing the line/don't allow anyone to cross the line. Don't get me in trouble.

Re: kayak

New2grammar — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:29:51 GMT

Hi Avangi,
A couple of questions:

1. Is 'how much for a kayak' a complete sentence?

2. In 5th, Why is 'make the very most of an opportunity' not suitable?
My justification, they have an opportunity to kayak during the vacation though
the weather is not favorable but it's still doable.

3. This may be difficult to answer. Why 'to cross' is better than 'crossing'? and I've
heard "Don't get INTO trouble". Why is 'in' better?

Many thanks!

Re: kayak

Avangi — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:06:18 GMT

2nd one, last clause, possible substitution: and it shows no sign(s) of letting up.

3rd one, middle sentence, possibly more natural (casual): We've been waiting for it to clear up for four days now, and we have to go home tomorrow.

4th one, last sentence, possible option: It could have been a great vacation.

5th one: (JFK liked it.) I don't think it fits here. This is more like "making the best of a bad situation." I may be wrong, but I don't see your chosen expression as "snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat" so much as "make the very most of an opportunity."

7th one: A kayak operator would be a person who operates a kayak. You just paddle a kayak. You operate a bulldozer or a crane. What this guy operates is the concession. "Are you the owner/operator of the kayak rental?"

12th one: I think the operations are out of order. You could put it as an afterthought: And make sure you empty the water out first.

last one: someone drowned Perhaps more natural: rules don't allow anyone to cross the line. Don't get me in trouble.

- A.

Edit. Been thinking about "seize the moment," and decided you're probably right and I'm probably wrong.

kayak

New2grammar — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:32:50 GMT

A: Let's go over there and see whether they rent kayaks.

B: It seems like nobody is guarding the booth. Maybe they are closed today. (what conjuction word/phrase should I use here). It has been raining for the past 3 days and there still are rain clouds in the sky.

A: We'll see. I really want to go kayaking. We've been here for 4 days and are going home tomorrow. I don't want to miss this opportunity.

B: We should have paid more attention to the weather when we picked the dates. It would have been a great vacation.

A: Cheer up. Seize the moment. (Can I use this idiom?)

<B sees a man lying in a hammock?

B: Are you the kayak operator here? Do you call the person kayak operator?)

Operator: Yeah. How can I help you?

B: How much for a kayak?

Operator: $25 per hour, 3 hours minimum.

B: How about $100 for half a day?

Operator: You guys are lucky. I'm in a good mood today. The deal is you stack the kayak on the rack after use and empty out the water, OK?

B: Sure will.

Operator: Also, don't cross the bouy line. Someone drown the other day and the new rules do not allow anyone crossing the line. Don't get me into trouble.

1. Are there any mistakes?

2. I have some problem finding the right phrase/ expression/words as mentioned above. Please help.

Thanks in advance!