ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 06:09:50 GMT

I will be going out.

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:31:09 GMT

Hello MrPedantic! Great Help! All the more grateful because it appears I had a wrong sense before.

I'm interested in those problems because there should (or could) be something in common in many languages.
(I have in mind here the difference between by/till, in particular.)

Thank you so much for all your help. See you,

Re: Will-future progressive tense

MrPedantic — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:20:02 GMT

Hello Roro!

#1 doesn't sound quite right; "up to/until 9pm" is too slippery for the future perfect. The peg slides back and forth in a groove. You have to hammer it firmly into the space-time continuum instead:

1. By 9pm, I will have been slaving away for hours.

That gives you the peg (9pm) from which you can stretch back your completed action (slaving).

2. Up to 9pm, I will be slaving away for hours.

Here you have a conflict between the two time references. 'Up to 9pm' is specific, as regards the time frame; but 'for time unit' is non-specific.

While #3 is fine!

See you later,

MrP

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:42:54 GMT

Thank you, MrP, too!
For your thorough clarification, which I needed (I'm sorry I was not clear enough about what I understood, what I got from your explanation).

Please let me think them over; .. I have just a little question now, may I ask you?　You say:
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1. Up to 9pm, I will have been slaving away for hours.

The future perfect here has no peg to hang from (here, in this sentence as it stands).
┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈
Thus this sentence is not wrong when it's placed in a proper context, right? which give some 'peg to hang' in the future.
(If I'm wrong, please correct me, but if not, it's not necessary, I'd like to ask you a bit further when I grasp my question more concretely, if you don't mind.)

Then .. h'mm .. how about this?

[2] Up to 9pm, I will be slaving away for hours. (or: for one hour)

[3] Up to 9pm, I will be slaving away.

(My conjecture: in [2], again, there's some conflict between 'up to~' and 'be~ing for hours/for one hour' ..??　[3] is .. ok?　Of course what I want is your first impression and not some absolute rule.
Please don't put any stress on 'for hours'

It's morning here, I'm not wide awake, so please forgive me if I missed your points. I'll study these examples carefully, they give me great help. Concrete and easily perceptable.)

With my warmest regards,

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:51:43 GMT

Thank you So Much, pieanne {!!}　You are so kind...!
I have to compose every English sentence before writing, and I have to check my spelling every now and for ever (in addition, you know, the same words!).

I was trying to analyze the subtle difference among them, EA, by the way!

Nice talking to you, pieanne, thank you again,

Re: Will-future progressive tense

MrPedantic — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:51:53 GMT

Roro wrote:

I thought the collocation [be+~ing for hours][till ~] would be acceptable.

Hello again Roro

It works as a restatement or clarification:

"It looks like I'll be studying for hours tonight – till 1am, at the very least."

"It looks like I'll be working all night – or until I fall asleep."

MrP

Re: Will-future progressive tense

MrPedantic — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:45:45 GMT

Hello Roro

I should clarify something I said yesterday:

[3] Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours.

The difficulty here is not just 'until' + 'for hours'; the conjunction of 'until' with the future perfect also causes problems.

The future perfect requires a specific point in the future, from which one can look back on a particular action. But in #3, the 'until' makes the time reference a period, rather than a point.

For instance, let's say 'you' get to work at 9am. Then, the 'until' clause can be replaced thus:

1. Up to 9am, I will have been slaving away for hours.

The future perfect here has no peg to hang from: we can't say when the 'slaving away' took place. Whereas in this version –

2. By the time you get to work tomorrow (at 9am), I will have been slaving away for hours.

– we know that the action stretches back from 9am.

MrP

Re: Will-future progressive tense

pieanne — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:59:09 GMT

I think EA was rephrasing your sentence, Roro... But don't tell us English is completely foreign to you, I wouldn't buy it! You're doing QUITE well!

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:38:48 GMT

Hello Eimai_Anglos, nice talking to you! Thank you for your reply!

Please don't be too hard on me, EA, English is a completely foreign language, and, living in Japan, I have almost no chance to use it in daily life!

... well!
You demand that I should analyse them, right?
Or there is something wrong in my sentence? (I cannot judge.)

Let me think, a bit...　Thank you for your tip, EA!

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Eimai_Anglos — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:17:10 GMT

Roro wrote:
It will take some time to digest every information I've got in a couple of days.

Hoooo, analyse that!

How about: "It will take some time to digest every piece of information I've got over the last couple of days."
Or "It will take a couple of days to digest every piece of information I've got."

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:56:32 GMT

Hello MrPedantic again,
I was not aware of this point before:

As to [3] & [4] you have to drop 'for hours' ┈┈ it conflicts with 'until' ┈┈ and use the future progressive: 'I'll be slaving away till you get to work tomorrow'.

I thought the collocation [be+~ing for hours][till ~] would be acceptable. But now I understand well that there is certainly some semantic conflict.

Cannot thank you enough!
With my warmest regards,
Roro

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:57:14 GMT

Hello MrPedantic, thank you so much for all your help.
It will take some time to digest every information I've got in a couple of days.
There is much intriguing information. Indeed!

I'll pay maximum attention to those kind of constructions when I read something from now on.

I really appreciate your help!

　ᴥ

Re: Will-future progressive tense

MrPedantic — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:53:26 GMT

Hello Roro

[1] By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. – Yes, this one's fine!

[2] By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours. – You're right to be uneasy about this one. 'By the time' defines a period in the future; so the tense of the following verb must relate back to that period. The ordinary future is too open; so we need the future perfect. Interestingly, the 'for hours' may well define a different period; in #1, for instance:

Time of utterance: 9pm today.

Time of arrival: 9am tomorrow morning.

Time 'I' began work: 5am tomorrow morning.

[3] Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. – Here, you would have to drop 'for hours' (conflicts with 'until'), and use the future progressive: 'I'll be slaving away till you get to work tomorrow'.

[4] Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours. – As in #3, you have to drop the 'for hours'.

Bye!

MrP

Re: Will-future progressive tense

Roro — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 03:32:38 GMT

Hello there. I just got interested in Pemmican's question and all of the replies above. From kitkattail's example (+α):

[1] By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours.
[2] By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours.
[3] Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours.
[4] Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours.

If I understand your explanation properly, by-clause in [1] provides some 'anchor' in the future. In this case the use of the 'Future-Perfect-Progressive' is appropriate, with temporal adverbials of duration, as in [1].

My question is rather naive: I feel uneasy as to [2] and [3]. But I feel nothing as to [4]. Is it wrong?
How do they sound to your ears..?

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(quote=Anon)
Provided that you continue to study in this way, in three years' time you _______ English.
　　a) will have mastered
　　b) will have been mastering
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Dear anon, this is just my humble opinion (I'm a EFL learner, by the way): temporal adverbials like 'in three years' time' requires some notion of 'limitation', 'completion' of event or something, so it doesn't collocate with progressive forms, in most cases.
(There surely are exceptions, which should be explained, as I've learned. When I'm wrong, please kindly correct me!)

With my warmest regards,

Re: Will-future progressive tense

MrPedantic — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 00:17:31 GMT

Have a try first yourself, Anon!