http://www.englishforums.com/English/EslGeneralEnglishGrammar-Questions/Forum12.htmAsk your questions on grammar and get your sentence checked. We answer lots of different types of general English grammar questions here. <font color=red>DO NOT post paragraphs and compositions here. Post them in our <a href="http://www.englishforums.com/English/EssayReportCompositionWriting/Forum9.htm"><b>Essay, Report and Composition Writing Forum</b></a>.</font>enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#344830Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:344830Anonymous0http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#344830http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-344830.xmlI will be going out.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121333Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:121333Roro1http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121333http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-121333.xmlHello MrPedantic! Great Help! All the more grateful because it appears I had a wrong sense before. I'm interested in those problems because there should (or could) be something in common in many languages. (I have in mind here the difference between by/till, in particular.) Thank you so much for all your help. See you,http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121332Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:121332MrPedantic2http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121332http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-121332.xmlHello Roro! #1 doesn't sound quite right; "up to/until 9pm" is too slippery for the future perfect. The peg slides back and forth in a groove. You have to hammer it firmly into the space-time continuum instead: 1. By 9pm, I will have been slaving away for hours. That gives you the peg (9pm) from which you can stretch back your completed action (slaving). 2. Up to 9pm, I will be slaving away for hours. Here you have a conflict between the two time references. 'Up to 9pm' is specific, as regards the time frame; but 'for time unit' is non-specific. While #3 is fine! See you later, MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121009Thu, 21 May 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:121009Roro3http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121009http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-121009.xmlThank you, MrP, too! For your thorough clarification, which I needed (I'm sorry I was not clear enough about what I understood, what I got from your explanation). Please let me think them over; .. I have just a little question now, may I ask you?　You say: ┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈ 1. Up to 9pm, I will have been slaving away for hours. The future perfect here has no peg to hang from (here, in this sentence as it stands). ┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈ Thus this sentence is not wrong when it's placed in a proper context, right? which give some 'peg to hang' in the future. (If I'm wrong, please correct me, but if not, it's not necessary, I'd like to ask you a bit further when I grasp my question more...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121001Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:121001Roro4http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#121001http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-121001.xmlThank you So Much, pieanne {!!}　You are so kind...! I have to compose every English sentence before writing, and I have to check my spelling every now and for ever (in addition, you know, the same words!). I was trying to analyze the subtle difference among them, EA, by the way! Nice talking to you, pieanne, thank you again,http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#120975Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120975MrPedantic5http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/3/brxr/Post.htm#120975http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120975.xmlRoro wrote: I thought the collocation would be acceptable. Hello again Roro It works as a restatement or clarification: "It looks like I'll be studying for hours tonight – till 1am, at the very least." "It looks like I'll be working all night – or until I fall asleep." MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120973Thu, 21 May 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120973MrPedantic6http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120973http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120973.xmlHello Roro I should clarify something I said yesterday: Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. The difficulty here is not just 'until' + 'for hours'; the conjunction of 'until' with the future perfect also causes problems. The future perfect requires a specific point in the future, from which one can look back on a particular action. But in #3, the 'until' makes the time reference a period, rather than a point. For instance, let's say 'you' get to work at 9am. Then, the 'until' clause can be replaced thus: 1. Up to 9am, I will have been slaving away for hours. The future perfect here has no peg to hang from: we can't say when the 'slaving away' took place. Whereas in this...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120949Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120949pieanne7http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120949http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120949.xmlI think EA was rephrasing your sentence, Roro... But don't tell us English is completely foreign to you, I wouldn't buy it! You're doing QUITE well!http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120922Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120922Roro8http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120922http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120922.xmlHello Eimai_Anglos, nice talking to you! Thank you for your reply! Please don't be too hard on me, EA, English is a completely foreign language, and, living in Japan, I have almost no chance to use it in daily life! ... well! You demand that I should analyse them, right? Or there is something wrong in my sentence? (I cannot judge.) Let me think, a bit...　Thank you for your tip, EA!http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120902Thu, 21 May 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120902Eimai_Anglos9http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120902http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120902.xmlRoro wrote: It will take some time to digest every information I've got in a couple of days. Hoooo, analyse that! How about: "It will take some time to digest every piece of information I've got over the last couple of days." Or "It will take a couple of days to digest every piece of information I've got."http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120871Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120871Roro10http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120871http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120871.xmlHello MrPedantic again, I was not aware of this point before: As to &amp; you have to drop 'for hours' ┈┈ it conflicts with 'until' ┈┈ and use the future progressive: 'I'll be slaving away till you get to work tomorrow'. I thought the collocation would be acceptable. But now I understand well that there is certainly some semantic conflict. Cannot thank you enough! With my warmest regards, Rorohttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120851Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120851Roro11http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120851http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120851.xmlHello MrPedantic, thank you so much for all your help. It will take some time to digest every information I've got in a couple of days. There is much intriguing information. Indeed! I'll pay maximum attention to those kind of constructions when I read something from now on. I really appreciate your help! 　ᴥhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120824Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120824MrPedantic12http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120824http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120824.xmlHello Roro By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. – Yes, this one's fine! By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours. – You're right to be uneasy about this one. 'By the time' defines a period in the future; so the tense of the following verb must relate back to that period. The ordinary future is too open; so we need the future perfect. Interestingly, the 'for hours' may well define a different period; in #1, for instance: Time of utterance: 9pm today. Time of arrival: 9am tomorrow morning. Time 'I' began work: 5am tomorrow morning. Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. – Here, you would have to drop 'for...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120784Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120784Roro13http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120784http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120784.xmlHello there. I just got interested in Pemmican's question and all of the replies above. From kitkattail's example (+α): By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours. Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours. Until the time you get to work tomorrow, I will be slaving away for hours. If I understand your explanation properly, by-clause in provides some 'anchor' in the future. In this case the use of the 'Future-Perfect-Progressive' is appropriate, with temporal adverbials of duration, as in . My question is rather naive: I feel uneasy as to and . But I feel nothing as to . Is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120484Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120484MrPedantic14http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/2/brxr/Post.htm#120484http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120484.xmlHave a try first yourself, Anon!http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#120266Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:120266Anonymous15http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#120266http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-120266.xmlProvided that you continue to study in this way,in three years' time you___________English. a) will have mastered b) will have been mastering What about the abover question?http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#6089Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:6089Pemmican16http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#6089http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-6089.xmlDear Moijelesuis, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I haven't studied a Romance language (I took French at school for a few years, but I've forgotten nearly everything by now). My question was just because it would have been logical if the 2nd part of those sentences were a future tense, too. But as you've mentioned: It's also logical to assume the other tense will refer to a future event as well and therefore it doesn't have to be announced in a special way. Thank you, another thing that I'll have to keep in mind!http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#6082Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:6082moijelesuis17http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#6082http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-6082.xmldear pemmican... sounds like you have studied french (or another romance language)! logically, you are correct that BOTH events are future, but english grammar assumes that the future perfect will logically and contextually place the other event also in the future. (other languages require a future tense for both events.) therefore, your examples are incorrect, a hyper-correction. i understand where you are coming from however.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5251Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5251Mike in Japan18http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5251http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5251.xmlRare? I beg to differ. In my opinion this tense is very common, and by the end of the day, I daresay, it will have been of great use to a great many people.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5203Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5203Pemmican19http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5203http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5203.xmlI thought about this use, thank you for your example, it helped me a lot But one more question: If the continuing action takes place in the future, the "interrupting" action has to take place in the future as well - So doesn't your example actually have to be either: "I will have been driving a car for 4 hours by the time I will cross the border." (An event that will happen some time after around 4 hours) or: "I will have been driving a car for 4 hours by the time I will be crossing the border." (Exactly after 4 hours I will be in progress crossing the border) or: "I will have been driving a car for 4 hours by the time I will have crossed the border." (After I have crossed the border, I will have been driving for >at...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5199Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5199moijelesuis20http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5199http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5199.xmlimagine two events taking place... one starting sometime in the FUTURE and continuing on and on, when the second one interrupts it (or at least takes place during the first event). the first event will use the future perfect (often followed by a "quantity" of time); the second in the present (often preceded by the expression "by the time") example: event 1) driving a car event 2) crossing a border i will have been driving a car for 4 hours by the time i cross the border. of course, the two parts of the sentence can be reversed, but the tenses must remain with the correct action: by the time i cross the border i will have been driving for 4 hours. (and yes, it is used rarely... aren't you lucky?)http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5154Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5154kitkattail21http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5154http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5154.xmlUsed almost exactly like "have been + present participle," except that it's in the future. Example: "By the time you get to work tomorrow, I will have been slaving away for hours." So basically, a future state resulting from an action occurring sometime before it.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5152Thu, 21 May 2009 19:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5152Pemmican22http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htm#5152http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5152.xmlWill-Future "Perfect" Progressive Tense of course, sorryhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htmSat, 21 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:5151Pemmican23http://www.englishforums.com/English/WillFutureProgressiveTense/brxr/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-5151.xmlHello everyone, this is my first post in this forum and I hope someone can help me. I am not a native English speaker so I hope you will forgive me all the mistakes I certainly will do... Well, actually my question... In my English Grammar book I used to use at school, it was said that there is a "Will-Future-Progressive-Tense" in existance in English, formed like will have been + present participle The only information given to this was that it is rarely used. I'd like to know when this tense is going to be used (context), can anyone of you explain that to me please or give an example? Thank you very much!