ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Nagging conditional problem

Marius Hancu — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:19:12 GMT

CB, you're on to something.

Well, really there are (at least) two situations here:

- if there's no chance that the other person currently has the money (you know they don't); they might get it only in the future. One should use:

If you had money, would you lend me some? [this is all about hypothetical present and future, not about past

- there's a real probability that the person has the money on them right now. One should use:

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? [this is more about present

or:

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? ["chancy" should

or:

On the chance that you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

Re: Nagging conditional problem

Cool Breeze — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:54:35 GMT

Marius Hancu

>If you have money, could you lend me some?
This should be using would, as it's about the will of the other person, as well as had, to create the unreal/hypothetical:

Hi all

I see nothing wrong with the above sentence. It's a polite request; could makes it a little more polite than can, at least in theory. In actual conversation very much depends on the tone of voice, of course.

Re: Nagging conditional problem

Marius Hancu — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:30:30 GMT

>Can I apply the same principles to the question form of the conditional?

Yes, but:

>If you have money, could you lend me some?

This should be using would, as it's about the will of the other person, as well as had, to create the unreal/hypothetical:

If you had money, would you lend me some? [this is all about hypothetical present and future, not about past

If you had the salt and the pepper, would you pass them to me? [this is all about hypothetical present and future again

Re: Nagging conditional problem

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:59:08 GMT

Thank you. I thought that might have been the case: a case of different uses of the same modal 'could'.

What also baffles me is the inclusion of the word 'then' after the if-clause? Does it possibly make a sentence less conditional or doesn't make any difference: it is a conditional whethjer it has the word 'then' or not?

If you have salt and pepper, then would you pass them to me? -- Not good since with 'have' in the if-clause, you should have 'can' or 'will'?

Then on a second thought, this could be correct since,as you seemed to have said with 'could', this might be the cases of different uses of 'would': it being used in the present and also being used for the future.

Help.

Re: Nagging conditional problem

Goodman — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:43:43 GMT

"Could" is a troublesome word because of its causual nature which is hard to explain with set rules.
We often use "could" in the present. i.e. Could you please pass the salt and pepper if you don't mind?
Also in conditional: If you asked me, I could have done it for you already.

Nagging conditional problem

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:23:16 GMT

Hi,

I think I have asked a similar question before and Marius supplied me with helpful answers and references (?) but after looking at those sources, I could not still figure out what to make of these nagging questions. Could you help me? I went to the Google Book Search and think I have found this:

If you have it, I could perhaps.

If the if-clause is in present tense, the modal 'could' should not be used and should resort to the past if-clause to create the hypothetical nature (as Marius seemed to have recommended).

If I had money, I could use it to buy a present to Marius.

Can I apply the same principles to the question form of the conditional?

If you have money, could you lend me some?

Why is this correct when the if-clause is in the present tense and the modal 'could' is used in the main clause.

Sorry Marius, I spent a lot time trying to find answers to those above questions but ended up less fruitful than expected. Could anyone help me with this?