ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: For

Taka — Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:29:08 GMT

I see. Thank you!

Re: For

MrPedantic — Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:46:48 GMT

In answer to Taka's original question, there seems to be a consensus
that 'for a French or Russian person' relates to 'impossible', i.e. it
doesn't mean:

1. 'His music is not impossible to understand, on the basic level for
a Russian or French person.'

The remaining interpretations—

2. 'His music is not impossible for a Russian or French person to
understand';

3. 'His music is not impossible to understand—for [i.e. if one is] a Russian or
French person'—

seem equally valid, but I'm not sure what context #3 could appear in. It has
the air of excluding all but R/F from understanding, whereas #2 includes R/F
among those who may understand.

What are these strangely selective 'sounds and sweet airs'? Perhaps all
becomes clear in context.

MrP

Re: For

CalifJim — Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:04:47 GMT

"possible", "impossible", and their negations (like many other adjectives) can take a "FOR ... TO ..." clause as subject .

Leave out "on the basic level"; it just specifies what kind of understanding (basic) is meant.

The structure is
"FOR a Russian or French person TO understand his music is not impossible."

where the italicized portion is the subject.

A few inversions take place before the final form is reached, but I think you can see that the FOR-phrase is the subject of a dependent infinitive clause, the TO-phrase is the predicate of the same clause, and all together the non-finite clause (FOR ... TO ...) is the subject of the main clause.

Alternately, the FOR-phrase simply acts as a variant of an IF-clause:

"... not impossible to ... basic level, IF ONE IS a Russian or French person."

If we took a poll, I wouldn't be surprised if the alternative were the more likely interpretation.

Re: For

MrPedantic — Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:52:40 GMT

Hello Taka

The usual phrase is 'at/on a basic level'. As you point out, using 'the'
has led to a certain ambiguity in this sentence.

But I can’t imagine a musical context in which the phrase 'the basic
level for a Russian or French person' would have meaning, so I would
guess that the writer meant:

'A Russian or French person would not find it impossible to understand
his music on a basic level.'

If a Japanese composer had been influenced by Debussy and Tchaikovsky,
for instance, this sentence might be applicable.

MrP

For

Taka — Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:27:25 GMT

The sentence:

His music is not impossible to understand on the basic level for a Russian or French person.

About "for a Russian or French person", which does it modify, "the basic level" or "not impossible"?