ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:11:01 GMT

Hi,
OK. It's not an easy topic to get a good understanding of.

Please post again later if you think of any more questions.
Best wishes, Clive

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:43:55 GMT

Thanks, Clive. I'm still a little confused about this, but your explanation will do for now.

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:19:33 GMT

Hi,
But doesn't the use of a possessive adjective in these particular examples have the effect of emphasizing the negative quality perceived in the described person, object or situation... or am I imagining this? I realize the difference may be subtle... but if there is one, I'd like to know about it. You may be right to some extent. However, if there is that difference, it's a very subtle one. You don't think you get a similar negative sense if you talk about 'the oversized earrings'? And there's nothing immediately negative about 'a/the/her blue dress'.
I think a great deal more negativity is likely to be conveyed in other ways, eg by tone of voice, facial expression, the use of negative adjectives.
I think the particular context and the particular topic of conversation plays a role, too.

a) "(...) to say nothing of that rundown store with its neon sign that keeps blinking on and off." Doesn't this construction suggest that the defective neon is (at least partially) directly responsible for the store being perceived as rundown and dilapidated?

b) "(...) particulaly that screeching soprano with her oversized earrings and blue dress." Isn't this the equivalent of saying: "As if it weren't enough that she has a screeching voice, her taste in clothing is shockingly bad."

Of course, as always, I could be wrong... Correct me if that's the case. I'm trying very hard to understand.

Clive

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:00:43 GMT

But doesn't the use of a possessive adjective in these particular examples have the effect of emphasizing the negative quality perceived in the described person, object or situation... or am I imagining this? I realize the difference may be subtle... but if there is one, I'd like to know about it.

a) "(...) to say nothing of that rundown store with its neon sign that keeps blinking on and off." Doesn't this construction suggest that the defective neon is (at least partially) directly responsible for the store being perceived as rundown and dilapidated?

b) "(...) particulaly that screeching soprano with her oversized earrings and blue dress." Isn't this the equivalent of saying: "As if it weren't enough that she has a screeching voice, her taste in clothing is shockingly bad."

Of course, as always, I could be wrong... Correct me if that's the case. I'm trying very hard to understand.

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:26:54 GMT

Hi,
I don't see any real difference.
Perhaps 'her' suggests that she had some responsibility for choosing the outfit she wore for the production.
Clive

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:27:56 GMT

Interesting. What if, in my last two examples, I substitute "a" / "the" with a possessive adjective. How does it affect the meaning?

"All the houses are ugly and dilapidated in this part of town... to say nothing of that rundown store with its neon sign that keeps blinking on and off."

"Do you remember when I took you to the opera? The production was terrible. The singers were horribly grating, particularly that screeching soprano with her oversized earrings and blue dress."

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:06:37 GMT

Hi,

So, if I understand you correctly, the distance of the object doesn't restrict the choice of article. In other words, it would be fine to say "that rundown store with the neon sign that keeps blinking on and off" even if the store wasn't in sight, right? Right.
Likewise, it would be acceptable to refer to it as "that rundown store with a neon sign that keeps blinking on and off" even if the store in question has only one neon sign. Is that correct? Yes.

What if the speaker is discussing an event that took place in the past? For example, would you say:

a) "Do you remember when I took you to the opera? The production was terrible. The singers were horribly grating, particularly that screeching soprano with the oversized earrings and blue dress."

or:

b) "Do you remember when I took you to the opera? The production was terrible. The singers were horribly grating, particularly that screeching soprano with oversized earrings and a blue dress."
These both sound OK.

Clive

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:30:53 GMT

Thanks, Clive. So, if I understand you correctly, the distance of the object doesn't restrict the choice of article. In other words, it would be fine to say "that rundown store with the neon sign that keeps blinking on and off" even if the store wasn't in sight, right? Likewise, it would be acceptable to refer to it as "that rundown store with a neon sign that keeps blinking on and off" even if the store in question has only one neon sign. Is that correct?

What if the speaker is discussing an event that took place in the past? For example, would you say:

a) "Do you remember when I took you to the opera? The production was terrible. The singers were horribly grating, particularly that screeching soprano with the oversized earrings and blue dress."

or:

b) "Do you remember when I took you to the opera? The production was terrible. The singers were horribly grating, particularly that screeching soprano with oversized earrings and a blue dress."

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:12:12 GMT

Hi,
Supposing that there is only one character with a moustache, can I say "my favorite character on the show is that guy with a moustache", or is it preferable to use "the" in this case? You can say either, and there's not much difference at all. I'd use 'the' if I wanted to stress that the moustache is an identifying feature.

Here's a more complex example:

"All the houses are ugly and dilapidated in this part of town... to say nothing of that run-down store with a / the neon sign that keeps blinking on and off."

Let us say that there are other stores in the same district (all dilapidated) and that the store in question has only one neon sign, should I use "a" or "the"? I'm really confused about this.
I guess my comment is the same as the above. There's not a lot of difference, whichever article you choose.

In reality, if the listener is unclear about your meaning and wants more detail about the moustaches or the neon signs, he will ask you further questions on the matter. In other words, you don't have to agonize for five minutes over your choice of article before you speak.

I'm sorry not to offer you a more precise answer, but that's how such discourse often works.

Best wishes again, Clive

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:42:06 GMT

Also, please keep in mind that, in my example, the person commenting on the condition of the building is not necessarily anywhere near the building. He may simply be talking about it to a person he knows to be familiar with the district. In any case, which article should I use?

Re: "a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:33:44 GMT

Supposing that there is only one character with a moustache, can I say "my favorite character on the show is that guy with a moustache", or is it preferable to use "the" in this case?

Here's a more complex example:

Re: "a" or "the"

Clive — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:44:27 GMT

Hi,
Well, here's one point to consider.
If you say '. . . that guy with the moustache . . . ', the definite article suggests that there is only one guy present with a moustache.

Best wishes, Clive

"a" or "the"

MarvinTheMartian — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:52:07 GMT

Hi, which article would you use in describing a specific unnamed individual? For example:

1. "My favorite character on the show was that guy with a / the moustache and pitch-black hair"

2. - Which one is your friend?
- He's the one standing over there, in a / the red shirt.

My guess is that they can be used interchangeably (except maybe in the second example, where I'd almost invariably use "the"), but I could be wrong. Could you please clarify it for me?