ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: don't I receive

Avangi — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:37:16 GMT

Yes. It's starting to sink in. Thanks.

Re: don't I receive

Yankee — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:03:02 GMT

Hi Avangi

Sure poetry is OK, but the "Not only" sentence in question doesn't seem to have been intended to be either poetic or particularly formal.

The thing is, pronouns sometimes have "restrictions" that nouns simply don't have. Just think about phrasal verbs. For example, we can say:
"He picked the ball up"
-OR-
"He picked up the ball".

However, if we replace the word "ball" with a pronoun (it), then there is basically only one way to say the sentence:
"He picked it up."

Saying "He picked up it" would sound "wrong" to native speakers of AmE. Wouldn't you agree?

Re: don't I receive

Avangi — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:40:06 GMT

Yankee
, would you be willing to change "a doubling of oil prices" to the word "it" and then say this:
"Does not it need a fitting response?"

Thanks, Yankee. I've seen this technique used elsewhere in the forums, and have noticed that it works very effectively. It just hasn't yet found its way into my subconscious. (Poetry is okay, though. Right? [reply] But it's not what we do here.)

- A.

Re: don't I receive

Yankee — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:35:16 GMT

Yoong Liat
After pondering over the sentences, I feel that the short form ( don't ) cannot be used in a sentence in which inversion.is required.

Hi YL
Here is one last try:

"Don't I receive" is a standard way to write the contracted form of the inversion "do I not receive".
In other words:
- don't I receive = do I not receive
- don't I receive is a subject-verb inversion ==> The uninverted, uncontracted form is "I do not receive"

I would agree that using the contraction is less formal. However, that does not mean that the contraction cannot be used.

Re: don't I receive

Yankee — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:59:20 GMT

Hi Avangi

This goes off in a slightly different direction since it leaves the "Not only" aspect out of the discussion.

To me, "do not I" would sound rather biblical (or so sayeth the Lord).
On the other hand, the contraction "don't I" is in common use. However, when "don't I" is written out in uncontracted form, the standard is "do I not".

Avangi
I couldn't find it, but came across lots of third person examples, like "Does not a doubling of oil prices need a fitting response?"

Would you feel comfortable using a pronoun that way? In other words, would you be willing to change "a doubling of oil prices" to the word "it" and then say this:
"Does not it need a fitting response?"

Would you say or write any of these?
Do not you
Does not he/she
Do not we
Do not they

Those would sound poetic to me. Possibly a highly stylized usage.

Re: don't I receive

Avangi — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:11:48 GMT

Yankee
No, 'do not I' doesn't work uncontracted in that sentence. However, if a contraction is used, that is technically what the word order is.

Hi Yankee, Just doin' my thing here. Can you think of a sentence where "do not I" would work? I was thinking it sounded sort of Elizabethan, like maybe The Merchant of Venice. I couldn't find it, but came across lots of third person examples, like "Does not a doubling of oil prices need a fitting response?"

Best wishes, - A.

Re: don't I receive

Yoong Liat — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:50:17 GMT

Yoong Liat

- Not only do I not receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.
- Not only don't I receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.

After pondering over the sentences, I feel that the short form ( don't ) cannot be used in a sentence in which inversion.is required.

And I think that is the cause for N2grammar's being still confused.

I hope some member will comment on what I've written so that N2G and I are clear as to what the correct usage should be.

Best wishes.

Re: don't I receive

New2grammar — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:39:12 GMT

OK... Just to confirm, in this construction "do I not" and "don't I" are correct. "do not I" is wrong.

Avangi, what's wrong with "Every day, I do not receive a compliment"? I believe you're saying compliment must be plural.

Re: don't I receive

Yoong Liat — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:30:50 GMT

Thanks, Amy.

Re: don't I receive

Yankee — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:21:46 GMT

Hi YL

No, 'do not I' doesn't work uncontracted in that sentence. However, if a contraction is used, that is technically what the word order is.

Re: don't I receive

Yoong Liat — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:59:49 GMT

Hi Amy

Many thanks for your response.

With due respect to you, I would like to comment on the second sentence below.

- Not only do I not receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.
- Not only don't I receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.

Not only do not I receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised. (If I use the long form 'do not', the phrase doesn't fit in the sentence, does it? Or is it correct grammatically? Please clear my doubt.)

Many thanks.

Best wishes.

Re: don't I receive

Yankee — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:40:12 GMT

Yoong Liat
I don't think 'Not only don't ..' is correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi YL
Maybe looking at these two sentences will help clarify what's happening in N2G's 'not only' sentences:

- Which part do you not understand?
- Which part don't you understand?

Both of the sentences above are correct, right? The only difference is the contraction in the second sentence. However, the only way to contract 'do' and 'not' is to reverse the positions of 'you' and 'not'.

The same thing can happen in N2G's 'not only' sentences:

- Not only do I not receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.
- Not only don't I receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.

Re: don't I receive

Abil — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:35:48 GMT

IYoong Liat's sentence seems to me to be grammatically correct. But I have no reason to term others as wrong.
Thannks

Re: don't I receive

Avangi — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:44:24 GMT

I think Optilang's point is valid, and his sentences are correct.

I also think New2's sentence works in its barest iteration, because the first clause is a negative. Within the time frame of the sentence, the lack of compliments is as continuous as the criticism. You might even say Optilang's versions tend toward redundancy, but they're not unnatural, and certainly not incorrect.

- A.

It would not be natural to say, "Every day, I don't receive a compliment!"

Re: don't I receive

Yoong Liat — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:30:53 GMT

With due respect to Optilang, I believe his sentences below are not grammatically correct.

Not only don't I receive any compliments, I constantly get criticised.

Not only don't I receive a compliment, I get criticised.

Not only don't I receive a single compliment, I constantly get criticised.

I don't think 'Not only don't ..' is correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe my sentence below is correct.

Not only do I not receive a compliment, but I also constantly get criticized.

New2Grammar is confused. He said, "I wish I could download weird rules like these from your brain to mine. They are so confusing!"

He and I, as well as other non-native speakers, need to know the correct version.

I would appreciate it very much if another native speaker could let me know whether I'm correct.

Best wishes.