ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Real Condition in the past

Yankee — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 04:22:08 GMT

Mr Wordy
Mr Wordy
A couple of more examples -- definitely not

However, there are a surprising number of Google book hits for this. Weird -- to me it sounds completely wrong. I'm wondering if it might be a US usage.

Anyone else?

A couple of more? A coupla more?

Yes, I have definitely heard this used (informally). In fact, I'm pretty sure it has escaped my own lips on occasion. It's also documented in the BYU Corpus.
Primarily an East Coast usage maybe?

Re: Real Condition in the past

Mr Wordy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:05:55 GMT

CalifJim
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to pretend that those Google results don't exist.

Good plan!

Re: Real Condition in the past

Mr Wordy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:03:48 GMT

New2grammar
If I remember correctly, I learned that a couple is followed by of in formal writing. Maybe couple more is an exception

Yep, it's possible that you're thinking of phrases without "more", such as "I got off work a couple hours early" (rather than "I got off work a couple of hours early"). To me the former sounds distinctly American. It might be that in US usage this dropping of "of" is accepted in informal speech but not in formal writing. But let's see what a native US speaker has to say!

Re: Real Condition in the past

CalifJim — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:02:08 GMT

Mr Wordy
to me it sounds completely wrong. I'm wondering if it might be a US usage.

I'm from the U.S. and it sounds wrong to me, too.

I'd say that a couple more is an informal way of saying a few more, and is subject to the same rules of grammar, namely:

Just as we can't say a few of more things or a few more of things, we can't say a couple of more things or a couple more of things. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to pretend that those Google results don't exist. They're too upsetting!

Re: Real Condition in the past

New2grammar — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:57:13 GMT

Maybe GG could comment on this. If I remember correctly, I learned that a couple is followed by of in formal writing. Maybe couple more is an exception.

Re: Real Condition in the past

Mr Wordy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:55:39 GMT

Mr Wordy
A couple of more examples -- definitely not

However, there are a surprising number of Google book hits for this. Weird -- to me it sounds completely wrong. I'm wondering if it might be a US usage.

Anyone else?

Re: Real Condition in the past

Mr Wordy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:51:01 GMT

New2grammar
Can I say "He couldn't have been paying attention" instead?

To me, yes, with not a great deal of difference in meaning. "Couldn't" just makes it seem a bit more in doubt that he wasn't paying attention.

New2grammar
I was told a couple usually takes the preposition of though it is also correct without. If I wan tto include a 'of', where should I put it, before or after more?

I would never use "of" with "more" here.

A couple of examples -- yes

A couple examples -- for me, no (sounds like an Americanism -- not sure if it is)

A couple more of examples -- definitely not

A couple of more examples -- definitely not

Re: Real Condition in the past

CalifJim — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:20:59 GMT

I'm not sure that these are actually "real conditions in the past", even though that terminology is used.

Usually, these have the past in both clauses -- no would clause. Is that what you wanted to know?

Re: Real Condition in the past

New2grammar — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:20:07 GMT

Sorry to interrupt.

Mr Wordy
If he didn't see that car coming, he can't have been paying attention

Mr. Wordy, your example captured my attention.

Can I say "He couldn't have been paying attention" instead?

Mr Wordy
A couple more examples:

I was told a couple usually takes the preposition of though it is also correct without. If I wan tto include a 'of', where should I put it, before or after more?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Real Condition in the past

Mr Wordy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:10:33 GMT

Well, the structure of such a sentence should be rather like the structure of the example sentence you quote, I guess. What else did you want to know?

A couple more examples:

If they got away with it, they were lucky.

If he didn't see that car coming, he can't have been paying attention.

Real Condition in the past

Lcchang — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:10:30 GMT

"Real condition in the past" is rarely discussed in grammar books. I just happened to find one book that mentioned a bit of it. Here is the sentence given in the book.

If they were waiting for a counteroffer, they were wise.

Looking at the sentence, I am not sure what exactly the structure of such conditional sentence should be like. Can someone help? Thanks.