ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: tense check

Clive — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:29:55 GMT

Hi again,

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"? How about saying something like "I think maybe I will . . . '?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

If you say something like What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me, you are mixing conditional factual elements. Instead, you need to say one or other of the following.

What Joe will do when Jane comes back is beyond me.

What Joe would do if Jane comes back is beyond me.

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved? Not offhand, although I'm sure there are some. But why do you want to make the readers do the work?

Best wishes, Clive

Re: tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:49:45 GMT

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved?

Re: tense check

Clive — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:59:32 GMT

Hi,
I had a little trouble understanding your questions in this post, I'm afraid.

It sometimes confused me whether I should use a past perfect or not in these situations>

Your correction:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

Copying the above again trying to point out parts that needed more explanations:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. 1) If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

1. My question: If we want to mention some action/event that will occur in the future, does the tense has to be "will," not conditional "would"? I now think it has to be "will", then how can we put an element of conditional into the clause parts?

When you say 'when Joe called', you are indicating that you are talking about the past, so I don't understand why you now want to talk about the future.

Anyway, do you mean you want to say something like this? If Joe calls, I will be in the chic district of Seoul.

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this?

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called.

If I had gone shopping when Joe called this sounds like a scenario in which you went shopping before he called.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:51:57 GMT

Thank you.

It sometimes confused me whether I should use a past perfect or not in these situations>

Your correction:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

Copying the above again trying to point out parts that needed more explanations:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. 1) If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

1. My question: If we want to mention some action/event that will occur in the future, does the tense has to be "will," not conditional "would"? I now think it has to be "will", then how can we put an element of conditional into the clause parts?

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think.

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

Re: tense check

Clive — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:42:05 GMT

Hi,

Please check for tense correctness.

I am sitting at a corner table in a restarant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened (might happen??) if I did this or that or didn't do this or that. If I went to shopping when Joe called, I would have been in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping all those fabulous lastest-trend attires."Probably colors are bright and colorful to reflect the season we are in," I thought. "Being in a chic part of this capital city wouldn't be a bad way to spend few afternoon hours." Then, I thought about what I might be doing if a certain thing will happen or will not happen a few hours later. "If John comes home about an hour later, he would be looking for me to playing chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he would be disappointed," I thought. If Jane comes back home about two hours later, she will be preparing dinner for us, and I will probably be on my way home trying to make dinner time. By then, rain will have stopped.Please check for tense correctness.

I've done my best with this, but in a few places I had to guess a bit about what you intended the sequence of your thinking to be.

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes."Probably the colors are bright and vividl to reflect the season we are in," I would be thinking. "Being in a chic part of this capital city isn't a bad way to spend a few afternoon hours." Then, I think about what I might be doing if a certain thing happens or doesn't happen a few hours from now. "If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. If Jane comes back home about two hours from now, she will be preparing dinner for us, and I will probably be on my way home trying to make it for dinner time. By then, the rain will have stopped.

Best wishes, Clive

tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:43:03 GMT

Hi,
Please check for tense correctness.

I am sitting at a corner table in a restarant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened (might happen??) if I did this or that or didn't do this or that. If I went to shopping when Joe called, I would have been in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping all those fabulous lastest-trend attires."Probably colors are bright and colorful to reflect the season we are in," I thought. "Being in a chic part of this capital city wouldn't be a bad way to spend few afternoon hours." Then, I thought about what I might be doing if a certain thing will happen or will not happen a few hours later. "If John comes home about an hour later, he would be looking for me to playing chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he would be disappointed," I thought. If Jane comes back home about two hours later, she will be preparing dinner for us, and I will probably be on my way home trying to make dinner time. By then, rain will have stopped.