ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: expectations, expectation

Avangi — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:29:29 GMT

Maybe my attack on PC was a bit strong. Jack Kennedy said we should do things because they're right. (We sure do a hellovalotof things that are wrong!) I think it's right to treat all people with respect. I recall a line from James Thurber's Fables For Our Time: "You might just as well fall flat on your face as to bend too far over backward."

Re: expectations, expectation

New2grammar — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:14:49 GMT

I'm happy with your explanation. Thanks, Avangi. I've learned something new from you again. I didn't know expectation can be uncountable. I don't think I've seen it used in such a way.

Re: expectations, expectation

Avangi — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:01:20 GMT

Skrej
[I'm biased by the the phrase "causing him immense problems."

In English, if the gender isn't specifically known, it's generally assumed to be male.

talk about this being sexist language,

Hi Skrej & New2 - Do we now have a concensus on these three issues? (BTW, Skrej, sympathies on your "glaring error." I know how you feel.)

On the first one, I may be missing something, but I didn't take Optilang's post as being in support of the singular "expectation." I think "immense problems" cries out for the plural. We must choose between (1) one expectation; (2) two or more expectations; and (3) "expectation" as uncountable. Thus far no one's expressed much interest in number three. I'm inclined to rule out number one on grounds that if it were a single expectation the author would surely give us a clue as to what it might be. I get a sense that the stress is on the multiplicity and magnitude of the expectations (sheer cumulative weight) rather than their specific natures.

On the gender language business, and political correctness (if I may lump them together), I think the movements have failed miserably, and have done far more harm than good. The backlashes injure more people than the movements help. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. Important dialog and discussion have been completely stiffled. I've given it an honest try. But (for example) until someone comes up with a sensible, useful alternative to "he," I'm sticking with it, and I don't much care who's offended. I'm just weary of the futile effort. I see no results.

Best wishes, - A..

Re: expectations, expectation

Skrej — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:38:20 GMT

Mr. Wordy
This doesn't seem quite right. The subject of this instance of "is" is "Lewis Hamilton", not "expectation".

First, I should apologize, as Mr. Wordy is exactly right. Not sure how/why I made a boneheaded mistake confusing the subjects. Mea culpa. Thank you for correcting that glaring error, Mr. Wordy.

Optilang makes a good point as to reasons for choosing singular over plural. Without knowing the exact situation, both do work, as others have stated.

However, in my mind, I'm leaning towards the plural as more preferable (but not more correct) because I'm biased by the the phrase "causing him immense problems."

If the problems are "immense (and multiple ones at that)", I would sort of expect him to be hammered by multiple expectations, not just a single one. I suppose if the single expectation was very strong, it could lead to a lot of severe problems, but I still favor the plural.

New2Grammar

Avangi, I've been paying attention to why he is sometimes used without knowing the gender. Is this common? Or Do you know Anon?

By the way, I agree with your interpretation of what the questioner wanted. However, I don't see why the plural is more effective. Any explanation you can offer? Thanks in advance

See my thoughts above on the plural issue. As for the question of 'he' when the gender is unknown, it is indeed very common. In English, if the gender isn't specifically known, it's generally assumed to be male.

There is of course a lot of talk about this being sexist language, and some movements towards using non-gender specific pronouns, but there's of course debate over political correctness vs. tradition, blah blah blah. You may see things like 'he/she', 'they', or even the odd 's/he' being used in an attempt to avert sexist language, but it's still the norm to just use 'he' unless it's known that the subject is feminine, at least for the time being.

Re: expectations, expectation

optilang — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:44:58 GMT

Mr Wordy
In my opinion, both the following are OK.

1. The expectation that Lewis Hamilton is under is causing him immense problems

2. The expectations that Lewis Hamilton is under are causing him immense problems

I agree.

It depends on how many expectations there are.

If there is an expectation, for example, that he will win, then the singular.

If there are several expectations, for example, that he will win, that he will sign new sponsorship deals, that he will be a good ambassador for the sport, then the plural.

Re: expectations, expectation

Tanit — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:26:04 GMT

< off topic >

Anonymous
hi
I am new
I want to ask you some quesyion can I

Hi,

Of course you can. Please create a new thread if your question is not related to this one.
You can do this by clicking on the big question mark at the top right-hand corner of the page.

< /off topic >

Re: expectations, expectation

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:19:44 GMT

hi
I am new
I want to ask you some quesyion can I

Re: expectations, expectation

New2grammar — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:52:40 GMT

Avangi
why he offered parallel singulars and plurals

Avangi, I've been paying attention to why he is sometimes used without knowing the gender. Is this common? Or Do you know Anon?

By the way, I agree with your interpretation of what the questioner wanted. However, I don't see why the plural is more effective. Any explanation you can offer? Thanks in advance.

Re: expectations, expectation

Avangi — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:11:15 GMT

My impression on first reading the original question was that the questioner was fully aware of the agreement issues, which is why he offered parallel singulars and plurals. I think he wanted to know if there was a preference between "expectation" and "expectations."

In this context, I believe the plural is more effective, though as Wordy and Marius agree, both are correct.

- A.

Re: expectations, expectation

Marius Hancu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:02:39 GMT

I agree, no prob with either ...

Re: expectations, expectation

Mr Wordy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:01:03 GMT

Skrej
However, in your sample sentence, you're given a clue. It says "...that Lewis Hamilton IS under..." 'Is' is a singular verb, which tells you that you need a singular subject, 'expectation'.

This doesn't seem quite right. The subject of this instance of "is" is "Lewis Hamilton", not "expectation".

In my opinion, both the following are OK.

1. The expectation that Lewis Hamilton is under is causing him immense problems

2. The expectations that Lewis Hamilton is under are causing him immense problems

Re: expectations, expectation

Skrej — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:58:38 GMT

This boils down to a case of subject/verb agreement.

As a quick reminder, singular subjects require singular verbs, and plural subjects require plural verbs.

Expectation is singular, expectations is plural. Whichever you choose needs to have the appropriate matching verb to go with it in the 2nd half of the sentence.

However, in your sample sentence, you're given a clue. It says "...that Lewis Hamilton IS under..." 'Is' is a singular verb, which tells you that you need a singular subject, 'expectation'.

So, "The expectation that Lewis Hamilton is under is causing him immense problems."

'

expectations, expectation

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:19:04 GMT

Hi,

In the following, should I use "expectation" or "expectations"?

Thanks

"The expectation/expectations that Lewis Hamilton is under is/are causing him immense problems..."

Thanks again...