ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: I or me?

Huevos — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:17:08 GMT

Anonymous
did you just make it up?

Yes, it's completely made up. I hope you don't mind.

Re: I or me?

Anonymous — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:46:32 GMT

Can you cite a book or authoratitive website with this rule in,... or did you just make it up?

Re: I or me?

Huevos — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:57:17 GMT

Grammar Geek
Huevos

GG, do you say "me too" or "I too" in the following? (Person A: Do you like Rock'n'Roll? Person B: ... Person A: "Me too".)

Neither. If someone said "Do you like Rock and Roll?" I'd say either "Yes" or "No."

I'm sure you are just trying to sidestep the question, but maybe it wasn't clear enough for you. So which is it? Is there really anyone out there that would say "I too" because there is an implied verb?

Re: I or me?

Grammar Geek — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:11:49 GMT

Jim, say it isn't so. Didn't you learn English though acquisition? And yet... you say it's... ENGLISH? I"ve been assured that's not possible!

Re: I or me?

CalifJim — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:01:34 GMT

Philip
the highlighted [ unlike you or I ] would sound stuffy and unnatural to some audiences,

Curious, interesting, extraordinary! I wouldn't have thought that -- probably because it sounds pretty natural and unstuffy to me! Hee!

Re: I or me?

Grammar Geek — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:54:26 GMT

Huevos
No person who has learned English purely through acquisition would ever use the subject pronoun in this case; it's just not "English".

What an astonishingly strange thing to say! I ASSURE you I learned English through "acquisition" and indeed, I'd say it. I wouldn't find anything odd about someone saying "unlike you and me" but it's not what I would say.

Huevos

GG, do you say "me too" or "I too" in the following? (Do you like Rock'n'Roll? ... "Me too".)

Neither. If someone said "Do you like Rock and Roll?" I'd say either "Yes" or "No."

Re: I or me?

CalifJim — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:31:19 GMT

Grammar Geek
I would have said "Unlike you or I" with the mental completion of "would."

They do this, unlike [the way that] you or I [would do such a thing].

I would have said the same. The presence of a merely implicit verb doesn't seem bother me.

Nevertheless, I would accept "me" there as well, because you can also conceive of the structure as a variant of "like me": John and I both enjoy jazz. In fact, he is like me in many ways.

like me -- unlike me -- unlike you or me.

I think there are good arguments for each choice.

Re: I or me?

Philip — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:28:34 GMT

Grammar Geek

I would have said "Unlike you or I" with the mental completion of "would."

They do this, unlike [the way that] you or I [would do such a thing].

Obviously, some would find this contrived. I do believe that we need to consider to whom we are speaking: the highlighted would sound stuffy and unnatural to some audiences, but other audiences would find the alternative ['unlike you or me'] quite a jolt.

Re: I or me?

Bokeh — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:17:18 GMT

Huevos
GG, do you say "me too" or "I too" in the following? (Do you like Rock'n'Roll? ... "Me too".)

I've heard this argument about the nominative a thousand times, but it's not natural English. It's been taught parrot fashion and it's contrieved. Your example demonstrates rather well how false it is.

Re: I or me?

Huevos — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:41:07 GMT

Grammar Geek
They do this, unlike [the way that] you or I [would do such a thing].

I don't agree. Just because the verb is implied doesn't mean the pronoun should be subject. No person who has learned English purely through acquisition would ever use the subject pronoun in this case; it's just not "English".

GG, do you say "me too" or "I too" in the following? (Do you like Rock'n'Roll? ... "Me too".)

Re: I or me?

Grammar Geek — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:28:37 GMT

I would have said "Unlike you or I" with the mental completion of "would."

They do this, unlike [the way that] you or I [would do such a thing].

Re: I or me?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:57:08 GMT

Thanks, Heuvos. I have a reasonable understanding of the rules of grammar but I am by no means an expert, so when I come up against parts of speech quoted against me I struggle!

Thanks again.

Tom

Re: I or me?

Huevos — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:41:31 GMT

This is English not Latin, but unfortunately there are certain people who try to show how clever they are by insisting Latin grammar should be applied to English. In English we use the subject pronoun when there is a following verb, otherwise we use the object pronoun. i.e:

"He is taller than me" or "he is taller than I am", but not "he is taller than I".

I or me?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:23:14 GMT

Having a dispute with a poster on another forum. He posted:

"To be fair, literally is misused by a lot of people, the media included. Very few people would say figuratively, unlike you or I..."

I think he should have used "me" at the end of that sentence but his argument is:

"I is the nominative form. Me is the accusative and dative. You love me, e.g. But I want, you and I play, this is from me, etc. (Although there are some poetic forms, such as "It isI who you love", etc)

In essence, the sentence is "Very few people would say "figuratively", unlike you or I (, who would say "figuratively")." The missing part in brackets which is alluded to.

You couldn't use me in this context."

Is he right?

Thanks.